Opinions About Vems V3.6 Management

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I can buy a Vems kit including the motherboard and all components needed to run two banks of injectors, a wideband and a wasted spark coil, plus the wideband sensor itself and an LCD display for just under 400 Euros. I'll use the loom and case of the original ECU on the car.

 

http://megasquirtavr.sourceforge.net/manua...ntro.About.html

 

I was wondering if anyone has used VEMS and what peoples opionions on them are.

 

Thanks,

Andrei

Edited June 9, 2010 by jackherer

[sideways danny 0]

every one i've seen fitted has blown the fuel pump trigger output. They're poor TBH, it's just megasquirt in drag, with less flexible software. Removed a few and replaced with more capable units. Most that buy them wish they'd just spent a bit more to start with

[hcmini1989 16]

quite expensive aswell mate for what it is

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

My options are either VEMS or Megasquirt.

 

I was tempted by the VEMS system because there is not much fiddling and assembling needed and has an onboard wideband lambda controller.

 

Megasquirt needs a separate wideband lambda controller (found a diy kit), it is marginally cheaper than VEMS, but the thing that scares me is that the documentation is scattered all over the internet and every time I search for smth MS related I end up with 30 open tabs and no answer.

 

400E doesn't seem that much for ECU + display + wideband sensor. I can't spend more as I don't have the budget for more, so should I go VEMS or MS?

 

The engine it will be going on is an Mi16 on bike bodies with two sets of injectors. Wideband is a must since I will do most of the mapping myself, mostly because there are no mappers where I live .

 

So as a conclusion, is VEMS really that bad or is this more along the lines of "there are better ECUs out there, but Vems will do the job nicely"?

[hcmini1989 16]

you could get a megasquirt assembled for around £220 ms1v3 and a wideband lamba kit for £130 so your saving straight away.But im usure about using 2 sets of injectors on the ms1 board i think you would have to get a few mods done

 

I would go with megasquirt all the answers are out there mate have a look at msefi.com if unsure post a question

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

To be honest I can't see any advantage of the MS1 over VEMS. Ms1 not assembled + lambda sensor and controller comes to 360 euros without the display and has less features than VEMS. And I'm not referring to features that I'll never use, Vems has a self learning VE table, ego correction for part throttle and WOT, knock detection, lambda controller, launch control, features that MS1 does not support or needs mods to support them.

 

Related to the fuel pump trigger I guess I could use a relay to protect the output, but my fuel pump is connected to a switch on my dash at the moment so shouldn't be an issue.

 

Any objective reasons why not to go with VEMS?

[sideways danny 0]

VEMS is megasquirt. Just like all the other pre-assembled versions, with minor specifics changed to their spec

 

All a load of crap once you've experienced a properly developed system

Edited June 10, 2010 by sideways danny

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I know Vems is megasquirt, but it's a megasquirt ready assembled with every feature available.

 

Unfortunately I can't afford a properly developed system so a load of crap will have to do for now, because it works for others and there are success stories.

 

I don't mean to be disrespectful but what is wrong with VEMS? Will it not work properly, will it blow up in my face, will I never get it mapped, will it never make more than 10 bhp, will it turn my engine to crap? Please feel free to go into technical explanations, I'm an automation engineer, I'll try and understand. You say it's a load of crap, explain why.

Edited June 10, 2010 by unariciflocos

[welshpug 1,622]

I'm sure you can buy pre-built MS elsewhere for less than £400,

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I'm really not trying to sound like a wise ass here, but if Vems is megasquirt, why is MS better than VEMS?

[welshpug 1,622]

because its a hell of a lot cheaper in most instances?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Megasquirt-1-V3-Bran...=item1c130447fe

 

otherwise you might as well save an extra £100 or so and get DTA.

Edited June 10, 2010 by welshpug

[sideways danny 0]

the ONLY megasquirt system i'd even get close to being prepared to use would be a microsquirt. At least it's in a proper case with a proper motorsport quality loom plug and not a printer plug like most of the others

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I mentioned earlier in the topic that I will be using the enclosure of the Jetronic ECU originally on the car to house the motherboard, as well as the plug and the original loom of the car.

 

Second, there are two confusions related to price and currency, so I'll try and explain.

 

MS:

MS1 kit + stimulator - 270 USD - 223 EURO - 184 GBP

DIY lambda + sensor + afr gauge from 14point7.com - 150 USD - 124 EURO - 102 GBP

Complete solution: 420 USD - 347 EURO - 286 GBP

 

VEMS:

Vemsboard 3.6 + power components + lambda sensor + display : 390 EURO - 322 GBP

 

DTA:

Cheapest DTA S40 is 500 GBP, add to that a lambda controller and sensor at 102 GBP and you've got 602 GBP, a good 280 quid more expensive than VEMS and 316 quid more expensive than the Megasquirt solution, and I am sure it has less features than any of the two in this configuration.

 

I have to work A LOT for 300 quid, so the difference had better be worth it. If you tell me that my engine will never work properly and it will never make good power, it will be undrivable and unreliable as feck with VEMS or MS then I'll save up for a DTA.

 

I prefer Vems to MS because there is less that can go wrong during the assembly process. The info I want is along the lines of "torque is all over the place because it lacks resolution", "afr and ego correction are crap because there is not enough cpu power", "decides to wipe its memory clean once every full moon", "hole in piston because it retarded ignition a good half hour after it first detected knock". So I'm curious if it has genuine problems, not that the printer plug looks unmotorsportslike.

Edited June 10, 2010 by unariciflocos

[hcmini1989 16]

what makes you say vems has less to go wrong during asemebly ,You said your self it is megasquirt .

 

right i can give you a james murray`s email if you want he builds ms ecu`s and has alot to do with the software devolpment side to.i think he was charging £170gbp for an assembled ecu id imagine it comes with a warranty to plus you can tell him what you want mods wise.He allso does the megaveiwer aswell but im unsure how much for this

 

megasquirt is`nt as good as other ecu`s such as omex .Dta due to resoloution etc but is a budget alternative so is vems .I`ve never realy heard anything bad about vems just seems pricey

 

As for the bike bodys unless your doing them properly without silicone joiners on a cut down manifold dont do them mate,BELIVE me they are a nightmare set up and will never be right

 

Im currently using megasquirt and it seems to be ok abit rough in spots and at cold idle but other than that its ok ,but im putting the rough spots down to bad mapping im going to invest in a wideband lamba i would like a diy kit but cant find any .But it made good power on the rolling road after i took the bike throttle bodys off

Edited June 10, 2010 by hcmini1989

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

As a complete solution MS and Vems are roughly the same price, but vems comes with most of the components soldered on on an automated production line and has all features built in from the get go, no mods required later on.

 

The link for the diy lambda controller is right up there in my previous post: http://www.14point7.com/NAW_7S.php

150 USD or 102 GBP delivered for controller + sensor + gauge.

 

As for the bodies I can't see a problem with a cut down manifold as long as it's done properly. I cut mine down on a mill at the correct angle and will be solidly mounting the itbs, internal diameter is identical 42 mm for both manifold and bodies, so I can't see why it wouldn't work. There's a project on the main site with earlier GSXR 750 bodies (that are 38 mm in diameter as opposed to the newer ones I have that are 42) held on with silicon joiners and it made somewhere in the region of 195 bhp.

Edited June 11, 2010 by unariciflocos

[matyasg 0]

Any objective reasons why not to go with VEMS?

I really don't understand you mate. You asked opinions about VEMS. You got it, but they don't match with your expectations. It's still up to you what you buy.

I have experience with MS1 and I think Motronic was far far better than the MS. I think VEMS is better than MS but not as good as a DTA, Emerald or a Haltech. I have a friend who uses VEMS on his Xsara VTS without any problem.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

The only valuable info I got so far is that they fry their fuel pump output, the rest are just subjective opinions with nothing behind them. You say Vems is better than MS but not as good as DTA, but I'm curious WHY that is.

 

I'll just go with VEMS because it's less hassle. I'll see if I'll regret it or not.

[hcmini1989 16]

The only valuable info I got so far is that they fry their fuel pump output, the rest are just subjective opinions with nothing behind them. You say Vems is better than MS but not as good as DTA, but I'm curious WHY that is.

 

I'll just go with VEMS because it's less hassle. I'll see if I'll regret it or not.

youll regret the bike bodies mate belive me i thought like you at first but now ive learnt my lesson do a search mate as said vems is megasquirt and its been posted up why ms isnt as good as others loads of times doesnt mean its not usable

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Sarty uses bike bodies on his engine and they're good for 240 bhp. I don't see why bike bodies are any different than others on the market, they're just pipes with a butterfly in the middle. Parts made for speed bikes are made to a high standard, how else are they to make 170 bhp per liter as the gsxr750 they came of does?

 

I think it's just a question of how thorough you are with everything and how many bodges you let slide.

[hcmini1989 16]

Sarty uses bike bodies on his engine and they're good for 240 bhp. I don't see why bike bodies are any different than others on the market, they're just pipes with a butterfly in the middle. Parts made for speed bikes are made to a high standard, how else are they to make 170 bhp per liter as the gsxr750 they came of does?

 

I think it's just a question of how thorough you are with everything and how many bodges you let slide.

 

sartys ones are done properly as in a specialy built manifold ,not a cut down one ,yes they are very good and usable but not on a cut down manifold theyll move i tried everything i had braces coming off the head to hold them still in the end and it didnt work .I had diffrent mixtures on every cylinder .The throttle is realy hard to get even aswell as they`ll keep moving .Every one on here that has done this conversion has reverted back to either a standard manifold or a decent set of bodies witch bolt onto the manifold .There is a select few that have managed it have welded things to the manifold .

 

It seems to me you have your mind set allready wich is what i did ,i didnt listen to anyone .I wish i had would have saved me alot of head aches and stress messing around with the map trying to get it right and all along the bodies kept moving

 

If you are going to do it id tig a flange on the bodies and on the manifold so they bolt together then you have something wich is equal to jenveys etc and have saved your self alot of money

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I dug up this topic just to say that I got my 1.9 Mi16 with 11:1 compression,GSXR bodies, 8 staged injectors and Petert stage 2 inlet running on VEMS.

 

After this experience I can say that the VEMS ECU is a brilliant bit of kit, it is absolutely packed with features, the software is extremely powerful, easy to use and doesn't look like it belongs in the '90s and the only reason why it didn't start on the first turn of the key was because i switched the 1/4, 2/3 wires going to the coil pack. Other than that no issues whatsoever.

 

There are no tuners in Romania, but I've been able to tune with an ignition map from Petert and I used the wide band to auto tune the VE on the road with satisfactory results. Just waiting to save up some money so that I can drive to Hungary and have the map redone.

 

Having spent 400 quid for the ECU, converting the loom and wide band I'm extremely happy with the result and can advise others to follow this route.