Oil Seal Issues...... Again!

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Ever since I built my engine there has been a very small oil by the crank pulley... Very small, just the odd drip every now and again, and after all the issues I had with the hockey seals I havent been motivated to look into it till now! And I'm only looking at it now because the leak has some what grown!

 

So I bit the bullett this afternoon and cracked on and changed the crank oil seal. Whist there I also nipped up the bolts that holds the end plate on ( the bit the diff seal goes into).. Anyway, all went well popped old the seal out, wasnt 100% that it was leaking but could see anything else that might be doing it.

 

New seal went in fine, everything back together... Started it up... oil running out! A constant small stream! How could i get it so wrong! Any ideas? What else down this side of the engine can cause a leak like this...

 

Days like this makes want a new hobby...

 

To cap thimgs off its the daily driver, which I need in the morning..... So also got to think how to get to work! oh joy.

 

A very unhappy Madspike.

[welshpug 1,627]

have you got a pic of where its running out? can only think that if its not the crank seal that its the alloy plate it sits in to the block join.

 

afaik its just sealant.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

What make of seal was it? I;ve had a customer supplied one which was a mile out, Well around 1mm compared to the Payne one, It went back and it was within spec, Only thing is I cannot remember what make it was

[DamirGTI 327]

Only thing is I cannot remember what make it was

 

Corteco perhaps i've been given a Corteco seal last time from my PSA dealer , and it didn't seal up properly it's still dribbling a bit for nearly 2 years now but i simply can't be arsed to try and fix this ..

 

Damir

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Thanks for replys...

 

I can't remember the brand (in a red box), it came from Euro Car Parts or GSF, dont remember which as I've had it in stock for a couple of months now.

 

Its leaking more that I would expect for a poorly fitting seal, but then if miles said he had one that was 1mm out, that would cause an interesting leak! Well, at least its just a cam belt off job, and not a gearbox out jobbie!

 

When fitting the seal, is the norm to fit the spacer first then the seal over the top?

 

Mad.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I did give up on the GSF one's for the odd Dribble of Oil, Touch wood and everything else the Payen ones seem fine

[welshpug 1,627]

Never had problems with the Corrteco ones, as mentioned they are what pug supply as well, FAI come in a red box?

 

That said I've fitted nowhere near as many as Miles

[DamirGTI 327]

Well, at least its just a cam belt off job, and not a gearbox out jobbie!

 

Mad.

 

Was thinking that it's the flywheel side of the crank seal which leaks the big one ..

 

I've fitted both of this Corteco ones on the cam and flywheel side , the cam side sealed fine but the flywheel one hasn't though it might be the stick "hockey seals" leaking as well , will need to inspect that ..

 

Damir

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I just put a OE pug one in, and it still leaks... But I may have f***ed that one up during install, but thats may have! I've had the cam belt off and on all bloody day... Going to try a new seal again... Then if that doesnt work, I'm going to give up and buy a saxo!

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Maybe a new approach is needed? I can't remember off the top of my head what the inner side of the seal, bears against. From memory is it not a "collar" that sits on the crank tail up to the oil pump driver sprocket? If so on the next attempt I'd think about removing that end plate, and get the collar out and inspect it.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Maybe a new approach is needed? I can't remember off the top of my head what the inner side of the seal, bears against. From memory is it not a "collar" that sits on the crank tail up to the oil pump driver sprocket? If so on the next attempt I'd think about removing that end plate, and get the collar out and inspect it.

 

 

I'm all for a new approach!

 

As far as I'm concerned it goes together link this...

 

Crank pulley -> cam belt pulley -> spacer and seal -> oil pump drive

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Yes, but what does the seal run against? I thought the 1900's had a seperate cog and then a spacer, and the oil seal runs on the spacer? I've been through my build pics but don't seem to have the one I need to show what I mean.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Yes, but what does the seal run against? I thought the 1900's had a seperate cog and then a spacer, and the oil seal runs on the spacer? I've been through my build pics but don't seem to have the one I need to show what I mean.

 

The seal runs against the spacer, ie its the spacer that rotates and needs to seal with the seal.

 

Some pics and a video of my leak!

 

 

 

To view the avi you need to "save target" and they play it... Cant get it to auto play..

Leak Movie

 

Very confused by it all.

 

Mad.

Edited March 9, 2010 by madspikes

[DamirGTI 327]

... excessive pressure inside the crank case ?!

 

Damir

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

What I'm getting at is, is the spacer worn or damaged?

 

Damir has a good point though.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

What I'm getting at is, is the spacer worn or damaged?

 

I tried a couple spacers.... no change

 

Oil pressure reading the same.... What would cause pressure build up? Blocked breathers?

 

mad?

[DamirGTI 327]

.. blocked/incorrectly connected breathers or worn out liners/piston rings try to vent the breathers into atmosphere just for a test and perform a leak down test

 

Damir

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Crank case pressure and oil pressure are two different things.

 

As Damir suggests, try venting the breathers open to atmosphere- if the breathers are restrictive then the engine will force air (and oil) from the easiest place.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

... excessive pressure inside the crank case ?!

 

Damir

 

 

Good try! I took the breathers off, fully of mayo! Ran the engine up for about a minute and no leak, only a couple of drops... Put the car back together, cleaned the breathers out and went for a spin!

 

Guess what.. oil is running out as before. Took the oil cap off, air coming out no problem.. oil still running out.

 

Any more ideas? - Saxo purchase is on the cards!

 

Mad.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

Yes, but what does the seal run against? I thought the 1900's had a seperate cog and then a spacer, and the oil seal runs on the spacer? I've been through my build pics but don't seem to have the one I need to show what I mean.

 

desn't this seal need to prodtrude slightly from the block to seal properly on the spacer. Appologies if i'm getting confused with the back seal, but it should easily be spotted by looking at the spacer and observing the shiny ring where the seal sits.

[DamirGTI 327]

Do any of the breathers have some awkward 90deg bend which might cause blockage ? or something ?!

 

Id most certainly do a leak down test in order to see if it's all fine with the liners/rings/HG ..

 

Then , would be temped to replace breather hoses (at least with some good spares..), and replace the seal just one more time and then try i out before shotgun/tear/smash approach

 

(could be something possibly wrong with the crank out of balance ?!? )

 

Damir

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I've tried it with the breather disconnected from the engine block and the same happen, large puddle!

 

The engine needs to warm up before it starts to leak....

 

I think the next course of action is to drop the sump, pull the seal plate off and check it all out.

 

Mad.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I've finally got down to getting this leak sorted out once and for all, and before I get down to pulling it a part I want to get a VERY good condition spacer in stock.

 

So what I'm on the look out for currently is a perfect condition spacer that slides over the crank and sits between the oil pump drive and lower cam pulley.

 

 

... as pictured its the light grey item, and in this picture boarded by the orange oil seal.

 

Thanks,

 

mad.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I think I may have found the source of my oil leak!

 

 

 

I seem to have managed the break the alu front plate, the break has been circled!!

 

Using my new inspection light, I just managed to spot oil seeping out of the break. Before any comments, I have removed the bolt in from the circled area, just to try and remove the broken bit.

 

I all means 5+hrs stripping everything off, to change this plate.

 

Mad

[carbers205 1]

Doh!

Good work on finding the cause though, least its a cheap fix.