Having A Nightmare, Headgasket/timing Belt 1.6 Gti

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Basically to cut a long story short something appears to have fallen down the through the spark plug hole on my 1.6 8v (1991), as a result when I try to turn the engine over to get the two timing marks up on the pulleys it gets 180 degrees either way and is then solid. So I'm guessing what ever is in there is hitting the head. Don't ask.

Is there any way I can get the head off and find the timing back again?

It's possible that the timing was out anyway as when I got it it had a massive flat spot coupled with a miss-fire.

Any help would be appreciated.

Tom.

[AndyJ 1]

Have you checked the tension on the cam belt? If its jumped a few teeth it could be the valves hitting the pistons. If it was just something fallen into one cylinder you would be able to go almost 360 degrees before it got stuck.

 

You can reset the timing by removing the cam belt and rotating the pulleys til the timing holes line up with the holes in the block. I forget the exact procedure for getting the cam the right way round (ie which valves should be open when the crank is locked with a dowel) but im sure someone else can tell you...

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

So it is perfectly possible to reset the timing if for instance I was to remove the belt with out locking it up. It does I suppose go 360 degrees as it can go 180 in either direction.

[AndyJ 1]

So it is perfectly possible to reset the timing if for instance I was to remove the belt with out locking it up. It does I suppose go 360 degrees as it can go 180 in either direction.

 

Yes, the only pain is the cam will want to ping into certain positions cos of the valve springs.

[Alastairh 47]

Yes, just time the bottom end up, so the liners don't have anything to moan about and then remove the head, that way you will be able to sort the head later.

 

Dare i ask what you dropped down there?

 

Al

[Bottrill 0]

Get yourself a long extendable magnet (Snap On or similar) and have a poke around down the spark plug holes. I managed to drop a small nut down after I had re-fitted the head on my 1.6 like an idiot.

[lagonda 41]

If the magnet trick doesn't pick up anything, you could shine a small torch beam down the plug hole whilst someone slowly turns crank over. Even better a midget bulb dangled in the bore.

 

If you know which bore is suspect, remove the cam belt, turn the cam so that both valves for that cylinder are fully closed, then turn the crank. Could be easier to remove the camshaft, then try turning crank...that way you'll know ALL valves are closed, & your problem has to be something dropped down the bore, if it still jams.

 

You can get a tool, don't know what they're called, but it has spring claws on the end, a flexible outer (bit like a bowden cable) about 2 feet long, with a button you push the other end. That simultaneously extends & opens the "claws"...releasing the button, once you've got claws on the object, means the claws now don't retract due to spring pressure, but grip your lost object. Very handy tool for exactly this sort of trouble...& they're pretty cheap as well.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

One of the tips to the spark plug had come loose which was probably a cause to the miss-fire when I took the plug out it then dropped down inside cue me getting annoyed, especially after finding out its not a magnetic bit. The original idea was to have the head off anyway so once I can get the head bolts off which have seemingly been done up by megatron. I should be able to remove the bit. I've got one of those grabbers somewhere I'll remember to use it when I drop some bolts in there after rebuilding it

 

Just out of curiosity what engine is this? I know it's a 1.6 but is it Carb'd or Inj? I can't see the Ign amp on the inlet manifold.

Edited January 17, 2010 by cheesegrater

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Injection. The coil and ign amp arn't always on the inlet manifold, sometimes they are mounted on the wing.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Just out of curiosity what engine is this? I know it's a 1.6 but is it Carb'd or Inj? I can't see the Ign amp on the inlet manifold.

 

I'm sorry, but surely if you can't see the fuel rail with fuel injectors fitted to that engine then you need to invest in some decent glasses. Why you're asking about an ignition amp instead of noticing the above and that there's no carburettor fitted has me totally baffled.

[mr_exe 1]

I'm sorry, but surely if you can't see the fuel rail with fuel injectors fitted to that engine then you need to invest in some decent glasses. Why you're asking about an ignition amp instead of noticing the above and that there's no carburettor fitted has me totally baffled.

 

 

Got to admit I was suprised by the question as well. Anyhow if you were thinking of taking the head off anyway, i'd do it so you can see of there is any other foreign matter lurking where it shoul'nt be

[davey sprocket 14]

Just out of curiosity what engine is this? I know it's a 1.6 but is it Carb'd or Inj? I can't see the Ign amp on the inlet manifold.

 

This has to be a wind up surely???

 

 

[big shouty voice] GET YOURSELF A HAYNES MANUAL [/big shouty voice]

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

I'm sorry that I've offended you somehow, this is my first 205 and haven't been able to compare any other engine to the one that was in my car. I thought I'd ask instead of just assume I thought it was an Inj but wanted to double check.

Anyway back on topic the engine is now out and head removed, bits recovered and some interesting things revealed.

Thanks to anyone who helped.

[Vz_ace 0]

I'm sorry that I've offended you somehow, this is my first 205 and haven't been able to compare any other engine to the one that was in my car. I thought I'd ask instead of just assume I thought it was an Inj but wanted to double check.

Anyway back on topic the engine is now out and head removed, bits recovered and some interesting things revealed.

Thanks to anyone who helped.

 

 

and what are those things? i'm very curious:)

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

This has to be a wind up surely???

 

 

[big shouty voice] GET YOURSELF A HAYNES MANUAL [/big shouty voice]

 

Give the bloke a break! How do you expect him to know stuff he has never learnt?!

 

Stop being ignorant and help, which is what this place is all about.

 

 

 

Tom what did you find in the cylinder?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Indeed, we all had to start somewhere, and some of the people who have blasted Mr. Cheesegrater have asked a few dumb questions in their time. Live and let live.

[davey sprocket 14]

Indeed, we all had to start somewhere, and some of the people who have blasted Mr. Cheesegrater have asked a few dumb questions in their time. Live and let live.

 

 

Yep, my apologies. My comments were un-called for.

 

I do wholeheartedly recommend a Haynes Manual though if the OP hasn't already got one. There are good descriptions in there of the different carb/ injection systems fitted to our cars.

[MerlinGTI 3]

Give the bloke a break! How do you expect him to know stuff he has never learnt?!

 

Stop being ignorant and help, which is what this place is all about.

 

 

Ive got to agree! A worrying question granted, espicially considering the amount of work being carried out by the OP, but cut the guy some slack We all ask dumb s*it every now and then

 

I think its mainly phase 2's that have the coil on the inlet manifold cheesegrater, My phase 1.5 has the coil and the amp by the battery tray (well further back and lower).

 

What did you find when you took the head off? a couple of 'borrowers' doing it doggy style?

Edited January 19, 2010 by MerlinGTI

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I thought my car was topaz blue for the first 3months of owning it

 

I'd never seen a Silver one and didn't know they existed!

 

O how naive I was, 1 auto bonnet, 1 rear bumper and 1 door later I realised

Edited January 19, 2010 by paul_xiii

[toddydal 1]

thats why i joined this forum to learn about stuff i dont know about and if i get stuck i can ask people who have had the problems im having now with my cambelt and then i learn and pass it on thats how it works

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Cheers guys like I said before this is my first so I am after your knowledge and experience so I can learn. The bit that had gone down there was the contact to the tip of no. 3 spark plug which could have been the reason for the miss-fire

Having had the head off the pistons have a worrying amount of play in them, in both directions.

My question of today is can I get the liners lightly bored and get some piston rings to suit or is this going to be a nightmare?

Also looking at no. 1 liner it seems to have twisted around (see photo) is this a major issue? Or simply a case of repositioning it?

I anticipate your barrage of abuse

Thanks,

Tom.

[Cameron 16]

Probably going to be a nightmare to be honest! How much play do they have, as they're meant to have a little.

 

I don't think the liner being twisted is an issue, best leave it as it is to avoid disturbing the base seal.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

That's what I think, I've heard the liners can be a right PA. The pistons make a good solid clunk when you push them lightly with your finger at TDC, there appears to be light scoring on one of the liners too.

[Cameron 16]

Well renewing pistons is expensive as I'm sure you're aware, so it's up to you I guess!

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Yes I'm fully aware as to how much they cost after doing abit of research however someone has kindly offered to bore the liners so if I can get that done and use larger rings, if such things exist, it should hopefully keep the cost down. The idea is to have an engine to use at the moment (once everything else is done) and use the original lump to recon and hopefully have fresh engine to put in when I've finished.

Edited January 21, 2010 by cheesegrater