Mi16 With No Power

[ricky1.9 0]

need some suggestions as I have fitted Mi into my 1.6 and cannot get it running correctly. And I really miss the pug now

 

Spec:

1.6 K plate

Mi16 1.9

correct Mi ignition.

Black tipped injectors

 

 

Problem started with the engine not being able to rev but tried to stall instead. when the car did start to rev would dance all over the place. It was also not firing correctly and would only spark on all plugs for fews econds after starting. all the plugs where very black, exhuast stank of fuel so is fuelling but a bit too much of not sparking to accomidate.

 

I have tried changing AFM, TPS, timing sensor, Ignition Amp, Coil, idle control vavle. I have tested all the parts for the correct voltages, resistance, checked wiring, ecu, timing.

 

when I changed the coil and ig amp individually it had no change, but when i changed both together (coincedence really) it made a slight difference then i bought a (second hand) new amp and it made a massive difference. it now runs so much better and revs up. but when i took it for a drive it had no power and would not pick up like the problem was still there but just not so bad.

 

 

there are a couple of things that are still playing on my mind that i i think might be contributing to this:

 

fuel is at least 6 months old.

black injectors overfueling or are not set-up correctly.

coil is damaged due to using duff amp originally which may have damaged coil

ignition amp does not have heat displacement paste on (has copper-slip in place of)

intake manifolds has few bolts missing (these are right *astar*s and must be very special bolts as the mounting flange is so close the intakes)

 

 

I know some of these are not excuseable but my patience has long gone with this and i was clutching at straws.

 

 

 

 

I would really appreciate any help as this has been in the workshop since last christmas holiday! I miss my 1.6 so much now as I have been dring a 4x4 in the mean time.

[welshpug 1,622]

dump the black injectors for a start then see what happens.

[ricky1.9 0]

are these a waste of time then? the engine i bought didn't come with injectors so i thight i'd pay waaaaaaay too much for these.

[paul205mi16 4]

As above..Clean the plugs up and earth point on gear box.

Edited September 22, 2009 by paul205mi16

[James_R 3]

Fuel pump delivering enough pressure??

 

As said get std 1.9 8v/Mi injectors in there to start off, plug gap aswell and get the inlet bolted up (2 are usually studs) then go from there.

[Galifrey 1]

Fuel pump delivering enough pressure??

 

As said get std 1.9 8v/Mi injectors in there to start off, plug gap aswell and get the inlet bolted up (2 are usually studs) then go from there.

 

Assuming it wasnt mapped for the different injectors, surely they must be first port of call?

 

I am not familiar with the stock injector flow rates, but assuming black flow more than stock, and are now getting the same duration open as stock, its probably massively rich.

[ricky1.9 0]

as far as i know it hasn't ever been remapped, not to these injectors any way as i bought these seperately. i was unaware that these would be massively different and would require remapping.

 

I assume 1.9 are okay to fit which if i recall are yellow tipped?

 

How would you remap for these? spark milliseconds later?

[Peetypug 5]

the last car i had that wouldn't run propperly (3 cyls, revs all over the place) was all sorted with some nice fresh fuel

[ricky1.9 0]

As above..Clean the plugs up and earth point on gear box.

 

all is earth well and have cleaned plugs many times - thanks

[ricky1.9 0]

Fuel pump delivering enough pressure??

 

As said get std 1.9 8v/Mi injectors in there to start off, plug gap aswell and get the inlet bolted up (2 are usually studs) then go from there.

 

am unsure if fuel pressure is low but would think is problem as seems t be over fueling and the car as a 1.6 was perfect (i just ruined it)

 

plug gap is good - multi point plugs

 

inlet bolt/stud set for Mi - part number anyone

 

thanks

[ricky1.9 0]

the last car i had that wouldn't run propperly (3 cyls, revs all over the place) was all sorted with some nice fresh fuel

 

I keep reading this but just can't beleive it would make that much difference. I will put fresh in though, once i used up old stuff....cheers

[Peetypug 5]

I keep reading this but just can't beleive it would make that much difference. I will put fresh in though, once i used up old stuff....cheers

at least it will remove one thing from the list of posibles

[James_m 0]

I assume 1.9 are okay to fit which if i recall are yellow tipped?

 

Yes, the same injectors.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The black ones, or 2L 8v Xsi ones which is one car they come from so not rare or Group A as Ebay makes out do work fine as I;ve done a back to back on them with a mere 1bhp differance between them but that can be put down to another run on the dyno

But as said change them as they could well be something else, Failing that poss the ECU.

[sub205 5]

The black ones, or 2L 8v Xsi ones which is one car they come from so not rare or Group A as Ebay makes out do work fine as I;ve done a back to back on them with a mere 1bhp differance between them but that can be put down to another run on the dyno

But as said change them as they could well be something else, Failing that poss the ECU.

caution! there are 2 types of 2.0-8v injectors!

the ones from the marelli are low-impedance-injectors and need to be driven by a pwm-capable ecu and not directly as the bosch ecus do.

if you connect a bosch ecu at them, nasty things will happen!

i dont know whether the bosch ecus with the 2.0 8v engine use normal high impedance ones, but i think they do.

 

there are also black bosch-injectors that usually come from the 102bhp DKZ-engine (xu10j2) and have less flow rate than the yellow ones.

with the bosch-number on the side you can find out what they should flow.

Edited September 23, 2009 by sub205

[pablo 0]

Id start with some fresh fuel, easy one to cross off and you dont need to buy new parts.

[Cameron 16]

6 month old fuel isn't going to make much difference IMO, I've had fuel sitting in my tank for over a year and it still started up just fine. Ditch the injectors, if the exhaust stinks of fuel it seems blindingly obvious that its overfuelling doesn't it? Get the standard yellow injectors on it AND clean the plugs (since they will be covered in crap) and start from there. I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

[philfingers 5]

Obvious, but maybe just too obvious - are the leads on the right way around?

Fuel- my Lancia starts and idles on two year old fuel, so i doubt it's that but changing it is easy. keep it and if it make no difference you can always reuse it

Change the injectors for std ones.

I doubt you coil would get damaged.

Unlikely the ign amp has been damaged by using copper slip but I wouldn't use it long term.

2 row or 3 row system? I'm guessing it's on proper Mi system and not the dizzy adaptor and 8v bits?

 

Phil

[Galifrey 1]

if the exhaust stinks of fuel it seems blindingly obvious that its overfuelling doesn't it?

 

Not really, its blindingly obvious it isnt burning the fuel, that could be ignition related as well, but yes, flooding/overfueling is one likely cause.

[woodsy 0]

What about coolant sensor for ecu if its running way to rich.

[Cameron 16]

 

 

Yes, it could also not be burning the fuel. But since he has the wrong injectors on there it seems a bit more likely that its overfuelling.

[Galifrey 1]

 

 

Yes, it could also not be burning the fuel. But since he has the wrong injectors on there it seems a bit more likely that its overfuelling.

 

Hence why my 1st post many posts up said if it hasnt been mapped for the new injectors it may be overfueling!

 

[Cameron 16]

Yarp, I wasn't aiming it at you though.. There was just a lot of suggestions flying around that would most likely be a waste of time.

[Galifrey 1]

Yarp, I wasn't aiming it at you though.. There was just a lot of suggestions flying around that would most likely be a waste of time.

 

Agreed, Injectors non standard would be my first port of call to eliminate, even the 6 month old fuel should not cause the current issues, fuel sat in my car when exported to Cyprus from UK for nearly 8 months (dont ask Cyprus import regs for kit cars are a joke) and it still ran fine.

 

My 205 ran like a dog when i got it, didnt want to rev past 4k rpm, plugs looked like brand new...

 

Cleaned injectors, misfire showed its face, sorted ignition leads etc, now goes like stink!

 

The usual suspects are your normal items to eiliminate!

 

How many poor running 205's in the past have ended up being duff ignition leads! Bloomin fussy f***ers with leads in my experience...

 

Edited September 23, 2009 by Porsche911r101

[ricky1.9 0]

the ECU sensor is good.

 

Leads are in correct order.

 

I dont think the fuel is a problem as the car does run fine when on idle and starts well.

 

I agree with Porsche911r101 regards the fuelling but i will change the injectors as these seem a very high possibility.

i will look to see if they have a bosch number on them to see if I can work out where they come from really ( group A Department )

 

 

The car is running correct Mi Ingnition setup (no adaptor) and is 3 row ECU