Rear Beam / Torsion Bar / Arb Combo

[sam jfm 0]

I have just spent the last hour reading old threads and some new ones about this subject and i am none the wiser.

 

I am looking to build a beam for tarmac rallying on a budget, by that i mean i want to try and use standard parts to try and save the cost of aftermarket TB's etc.

 

What size OE torsion bars and ARB's fit or can be made to fit a 205 beam? and what cars do they come off?

 

What size OE torsion bars and ARB's fit or can be made to fit a 309 beam? and what cars do they come off?

 

 

Are there combo's of TB and ARB that you dont want to mix? (makes it too stiff etc?)

 

 

I feel the need to apologise as this has been covered many times but i just cant seem to find the simple information.

 

 

 

Regards Sam

[SurGie 54]

There does seem to be a lot of info through searching about this, there also seems to be a lot of different opinions due to everyone having

different driving styles etc. The best thing would be to research the topics, then try the best one that might be right for you. If that feels

not quite right, change it.

 

I vote for a FAQ on this subject for all roads conditions, in combination with the front suspension types, pro's and con's.

 

1) SurGie

2)

[jimistdt 1]

Have you read this STICKY'd THREAD sam?

 

Covers the basics and also gets quite in depth in places.

 

There are people on here that can make torsion bars and ARBs to your requirements.

 

There is no one size fits all strategy really, it's a case of tailoring to your style and environment.

[sam jfm 0]

Well what i was really after was a list of what bars can be fitted to the 205 and or 309 beams then i can look at which i want to use. i have a rough understanding on what effect different spring rates ect have on the handling.

 

I found some good info on the difference the bars make, but i couldnt work out for example is a there 23mm torsion bar for say a xsara that i can fit onto a 205 beam? or perhaps to put it another way, what are the biggest OE spec torsion bars and arb's that i can make fit a 205 beam?

 

Do you see what i mean?

[jimistdt 1]

Yes, sorry about that, reading it back it is a little cryptic.

 

Have a look on here then http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry893096

 

Seems 106 bars with 306 end plates is a good combo.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

I vote for a FAQ on this subject for all roads conditions, in combination with the front suspension types, pro's and con's.

Feel free to start writing one then, it won't appear on its own.

 

Well what i was really after was a list of what bars can be fitted to the 205 and or 309 beams then i can look at which i want to use.

 

I found some good info on the difference the bars make, but i couldnt work out for example is a there 23mm torsion bar for say a xsara that i can fit onto a 205 beam? or perhaps to put it another way, what are the biggest OE spec torsion bars and arb's that i can make fit a 205 beam?

The only torsion & anti roll bars that will fit directly onto a 205 or 309 beam are thiose that are made for them. The biggest size I know of for the 205 beam from PTS was 23mm torsion bars, iirc any bigger than that & the bar won't fit through the hole in the radius arm so it makes setting the beam ride height accurately a nightmare job.

 

I think it has been mentioned that the torsion bars from a berlingo van are close to the right size to fit a 309 beam but without modification the bars from a Xsara or 306 won't fit because they are considerably longer that those for a 205 or 309.

 

Seems 106 bars with 306 end plates is a good combo.

106 torsion bars are the same size as the 205 ones at 19mm afaik & although the rear arb will fit its shorter so the splines won't be in the end plate properly.

 

Personally I'd use one the right length.

 

Graham.

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

106 torsion bars are the same size as the 205 ones at 19mm afaik & although the rear arb will fit its shorter so the splines won't be in the end plate properly.

 

Personally I'd use one the right length.

 

Graham.

 

 

 

Just to add to this Graham, ive been running a saxo 22mm arb for a couple of months now with no problems what so ever, car gets driven relatively hard too and its been spot on with no noises or stripping of end plate threds, theres pretty large contact area, spaced out around 5-6mm.

[sam jfm 0]

Feel free to start writing one then, it won't appear on its own.

 

 

The only torsion & anti roll bars that will fit directly onto a 205 or 309 beam are thiose that are made for them. The biggest size I know of for the 205 beam from PTS was 23mm torsion bars, iirc any bigger than that & the bar won't fit through the hole in the radius arm so it makes setting the beam ride height accurately a nightmare job.

 

I think it has been mentioned that the torsion bars from a berlingo van are close to the right size to fit a 309 beam but without modification the bars from a Xsara or 306 won't fit because they are considerably longer that those for a 205 or 309.

 

 

106 torsion bars are the same size as the 205 ones at 19mm afaik & although the rear arb will fit its shorter so the splines won't be in the end plate properly.

 

Personally I'd use one the right length.

 

Graham.

 

So bars for the 306,Xsara and berlingo will fit the 309 beam if you modify them by cutting the ends off the splines? does that include the ARB's

 

And there are no thicker TB's that can be made to fit the 205 rear beam? you have to use some aftermarket ones?

 

Cheers this is what i was looking for

Edited August 23, 2009 by sam jfm

[welshpug 1,628]

nooooo! only the berlingo/partner torsion bars will fit the 309 beam, straight fit.

 

the ARB's are the ones you can take from the 306/xsara and shorten+weld the end plate on for a 309 or 205 beam

 

I'm still unsure or the 106/saxo arb in the 205 beam because it is a bit short, though I havent been able to test it out fully as its off the road till i get a proper job.

Edited August 23, 2009 by welshpug

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

And there are no thicker TB's that can be made to fit the 205 rear beam? you have to use some aftermarket ones?

Not really, modifiing torsion bars is a bad practice imo, cutting & welding them isn't a good idea because it will change the spring tendancies of the bar where its welded & they can't be re-splined because the Xsara / 306 bars are only 1-2mm bigger so you can buy 205 bars in the same size which will work perfectly.

 

Graham.

[sam jfm 0]

Are berlingo/partner VAN torsion bars useable?

[welshpug 1,628]

nooooo! only the berlingo/partner torsion bars will fit the 309 beam, straight fit.

 

the ARB's are the ones you can take from the 306/xsara and shorten+weld the end plate on for a 309 or 205 beam

 

I'm still unsure or the 106/saxo arb in the 205 beam because it is a bit short, though I havent been able to test it out fully as its off the road till i get a proper job.

 

 

Are berlingo/partner VAN torsion bars useable?

 

 

[sam jfm 0]

 

 

Any thicker?

[SurGie 54]

Wont having TB much thicker make the handling a bit twitchy on the road with the uneven surface, as well as the lightness of the

205 ? (something about rebound ?)

[Dazza 4]

I did a little homework on this for my 205 GT16 and down to me using it for 99% trackday use i opted for the 25mm ARB and the 23mm T/B's ...its a whole lot more rigid and cocks the wheels all the time with ease ...

 

Lynchy told me that i had the inside front off the ground to whilst he was chasing me around croft ..i hope he wasnt serious ..good effort though ...

 

I would say though now the car is not as driveable on the track in the wet unless youve got the option to soften the dampers right off and use inters or wets ...its a rock solid dry car with these upgraded bars .

 

Its not a road set up option imo , way to much and awkward to set some quick road rallying times , it'll probrobly throw you into the first hawthorn hedge .

 

I would say some of the option the guys have would be much better than the standard set-up , worth playing around with to suit your style .

Edited August 31, 2009 by Dazza

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

I've 23mm bars and a 24mm ARB in my 205, admittedly on a 309 beam so the width does slightly de-rate the 23mm bar compared to a 23mm bar in a 205 width beam.

 

I use it on the road and think it is great, however the back end can get a little bit lively over the really bumpy stuff.