Quaife Quick Rack Questions

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I have a quaife quick rack on the 205 (thanks to Alan_m for the bearing ), now when I changed everything over I did not move the TRE's; but when re-assembled the tracking was WAY out and it turned lock-to-lock more one way than the other.

 

I've adjusted the tracking/lock-to-lock issue but one of the track rod ends (N/S) seems to be nearly at the end of it's thread.

 

Also when the wheels are straight, the steering seems to be stiff for about 5degrees of travel either way and then loosens off.

 

Any one had these problems?

[swordfish210 20]

Mine was fine when i fitted it. I'd just take it apart again and make sure that you put it togeather properly.

[welshpug 1,678]

second issue sounds more like a lower column issue than the rack itself

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

You need to either do as above, reset the steering column, or easier, set the track rod ends evenly, put the wheels central then just remove the steering wheel and place it centrally. Then get it tracked from that.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

You need to either do as above, reset the steering column, or easier, set the track rod ends evenly, put the wheels central then just remove the steering wheel and place it centrally. Then get it tracked from that.

 

If I set the track rod ends equal, thats the problem I started with. (turned one way more than the other about 1 turn left and 2(ish) right.)

 

I'll have a play with the lower column joint think it might not be on properly.

Could I not get a different rack arm that will be longer off a different car.

 

I've got 309 running gear on the front if that makes any difference.

[taylorspug 7]

What CW is saying is right. The rack isnt centralised when you are pointing straight ahead, hence why it steers one way more than the other before hitting the lock stop/end of travel. From what you have said it sounds like the rack needs to turn about half a turn to the right (which would even up the lock to lock travel going by what you have said), then the steering wheel and TREs need resetting from there. You will find you can now wind the N/S TRE in alot, as you have effectively moved the threaded part (ie the steering arm) further out.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

What CW is saying is right. The rack isnt centralised when you are pointing straight ahead, hence why it steers one way more than the other before hitting the lock stop/end of travel. From what you have said it sounds like the rack needs to turn about half a turn to the right (which would even up the lock to lock travel going by what you have said), then the steering wheel and TREs need resetting from there. You will find you can now wind the N/S TRE in alot, as you have effectively moved the threaded part (ie the steering arm) further out.

 

Not sounding like a grumpy old git here, but that is now what I have done as mention above ^. I have centralised the rack and adjust the track rods to suit, this has caused the TRE on the NS to become dangerously near the end of the thread, I'm using 309 drivetrain which has pushed it out a bit further.

 

If I centralise the rack using centre end measurements etc (so the ARMS are the same distance from the rack) I end up with the rack turning lock-to-lock one way more than the other.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Then there's something wrong with the rack or track rods perhaps? or the position of the rack on the subframe.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "centralising the TREs to suit" and then ending up with one screwed out far more than the other? If you set the TREs equally (a rough guess - half way screwed in), then set the road wheels evenly as best straight ahead, then lastly reset the steering wheel to something resembling straight ahead, it should then just need proper tracking from that.

[jackherer 543]

then lastly reset the steering wheel to something resembling straight ahead

 

Its critical that the wheel be straight when the rack is exactly centralised, otherwise you get unequal amounts of lock each way, something resembling straight is not good enough.

 

Paul, did you change the track rods on the quick rack? If so could you have one 205 rod and one 309 rod?

[taylorspug 7]

Sounds like you have two different length steering arms then.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Sounds like you have two different length steering arms then.

 

That sound about right, the thing that confuses me though it was ok when I had the old STD rack and pinion in place. There doesnt seem to be much play in the rack/subframe assembly, i.e. how much give it has each way when bolts are loose.

 

The arms are standard 205 items that I know of.

 

1.Are the standard 205 arms the same length each side?

 

2. Will 309/306 arms solve my problem?

[taylorspug 7]

Measure the arms you have on their now, they should be the same length, they are the same part number. Tbh any two matching arms will solve the problem, they may well be too short or long, but at least they would be equal if you get me. You shouldnt have any problems running 205 arms with the 309 front setup, i certainly am.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I ran 205 steering arms with 309 driveshafts and adjustable bottom arms with a good 0.5 or more of negative camber, and there was NOT much thread left for comfort on the TCA's. Maybe there was something funny or unique about my setup (we're not talking road geometry after all), but if you're running a 309 wide-track front I would definately suggest you put 309 steering arms on there to match. If you're not running an agressive geometry you'll get away with it, though; don't get me wrong...

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I put the arms up to each other when they were off the car and they measured up equal....

 

Really dont understand this.

 

Rack is centralised (equal lock lock)

Steering wheel is central

STD 205 arms I believe

New TRE's on each

Was working ok with old rack and pinion (TRE at equal length)

 

But as soon as I put the new rack and pinion in it throws everything out.

 

I will fit some 309 arms and hopefully cure the problem

 

EDIT: just sourced some arms in the matter of 5mins

Edited July 14, 2009 by paul_xiii

[jackherer 543]

Have you changed the hubs?

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Yes but that was ages ago, they used to be ABS hubs. It was fine afterwards aswell.

 

I dont know why I closed this, clicked on the wrong topic lol

 

Here's a pic of the track ends and please before people start saying it not centred it is.

Equal lock-lock etc wheels straight...

 

O/S

 

N/S

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Its critical that the wheel be straight when the rack is exactly centralised, otherwise you get unequal amounts of lock each way, something resembling straight is not good enough.

 

Obviously I mean to the nearest spline

 

centralise everthing as best you can then have it tracked accurately.

 

 

 

Sounds like something is a-miss looking at those TREs! Have you measured from the rack casing body to the end of the trackrods to make sure they're the same length? surely must be easy to work out why there is such a descrepency!

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I put the arms up to each other when they were off the car and they measured up equal....

 

Really dont understand this.

 

Rack is centralised (equal lock lock)

Steering wheel is central

STD 205 arms I believe

New TRE's on each

Was working ok with old rack and pinion (TRE at equal length)

 

But as soon as I put the new rack and pinion in it throws everything out.

 

I will fit some 309 arms and hopefully cure the problem

 

EDIT: just sourced some arms in the matter of 5mins

 

If the current arms are the same lengh, how will fitting two longer ones help create equailty? - it will just result in the same difference surely!? I don't know what it is but you must be missing/overlooking something.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I can't see what I would be missing to be honest, firstly I turned the wheel (when the rack was connected) to find the middle e.g. equal lock-lock etc.

 

Then the wheels were way out with the tracking, I adjusted the TRE to suit and ended up with the picture above ^

 

I was going to fit the 309 arm to the N/S just to give me a bit more leway.

If it comes to it i'll sacrifice a bit of lock one way to make sure theres a healthy amount of thread in the arm.

[Flix 0]

How do you know the tracking is out?

How are you measuring it?

I have standard rack, 309 arms and the TRE's are bout halfway in.

[jackherer 543]

If you have more lock one way than the other you will mess up the ackermann angles (toe out on turn)

 

I agree that there isn't anything you haven't mentioned checking but something must either be bent or a different length side to side... The reason I asked about hubs earlier is because a friends 205 had a similar problem that turned out to be a slightly bent steering arm on one of the hubs, it took me a long time to spot it as there wasn't much visible distortion.

 

BTW can you set your location correctly please!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

How do you know the tracking is out?

How are you measuring it?

I have standard rack, 309 arms and the TRE's are bout halfway in.

 

The wheels were pointing off to the left of the car, one wheel ALOT more than the other.

 

Has any one actually have a quaife quick rack installed on their car? Spline type.

 

Ok thanks Jack, sorry having a bit of trouble with the local gypo's at the moment.

Edited July 16, 2009 by paul_xiii

[Flix 0]

So you are checking the tracking visually.

Looking at mine from the front, both wheels look to be pointing out, but are parallel with the laser.

Unless something is bent, and both arms are the same, I would suggest measuring with string lines.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

So you are checking the tracking visually.

Looking at mine from the front, both wheels look to be pointing out, but are parallel with the laser.

Unless something is bent, and both arms are the same, I would suggest measuring with string lines.

 

Yes sorry forgot to say visually. When I say the tracking was out I mean the NS was at about 30 degrees and the OS was about 15-20 degrees. Both pointing towards the NS of the car, this was with equal lock lock on the wheel

[swordfish210 20]

I've a square drive type Quaife quickrack in mine. It was one of the early ones (2.78turns lock to lock) and, apart from the problems i had finding a suitable bearing for the pinion it worked perfectly the first time i built and fitted it and has been faultless since.