That Annoying Starter Problem.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

It's a bit embarrassing having to turn the key five times after hearing click....click... to get the starter to spin, but I've had this problem for 9 years now.

4 Starters later (2 recon ones from GSF) twice rewired with fresh wiring/connectors giving 12V to the solenoid switch wire and I still have this symptom.

I've noticed it does it more when the engine is hot, but if I take it off and bench test it, it works fine, It even works for a day or two after when I put it back on.

 

There's two things I'm going to try next (hopefully this weekend) Replace the spade connector to the solenoid (again) with a good quality one if I can find one (can you get these in Stainless?) I'm also going to fit an earth wire to one of the mounting studs into the bell housing to the earth directly on the battery.

I am starting to consider a starter button too as I've heard this cures the problem but I've always thought they look a bit chav.

Edited June 24, 2009 by ALEX

[woodsy 0]

I had same problem many years ago.Eventually a good auto electrician i knew wired in a starter solenoid

similiar to ones that are on old minis (dont laugh), this gave the starter better power to it and never had

problem since.I would replace that spade terminal first though and try that.

[welshpug 1,626]

no need for extra earths or starter buttons, replace the section of wire from the starter back to the brown plugs next to the steering column, and also check the condition of the power lead from the battery to the shunt box, this can cause a voltage drop which when it gets along the circuit to the starter can cause this problem as well as the corroded wiring.

[CosKev 16]

Also could be the ignition switch.

 

One way of eliminating low voltage probs to the starter ignition connection is to get yourself a relay and wire it up direct to battery,threw a fuse,and then use the orig wire from ignition barrel to switch the relay on

[Saveit 0]

Also could be the ignition switch.

 

One way of eliminating low voltage probs to the starter ignition connection is to get yourself a relay and wire it up direct to battery,threw a fuse,and then use the orig wire from ignition barrel to switch the relay on

 

Thats the i would do i also. Easy and good solid solution.

[welshpug 1,626]

no need for relays and stuff, just have a go as mentioned

[CosKev 16]

no need for relays and stuff, just have a go as mentioned

 

Would be quicker and easier to wire in a relay though

[welshpug 1,626]

far from it, you only need to replace one wire, instead of fit 3 separate wires, a relay and all the associated terminals, makes the engine bay look messy IMO.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I bet it's a big bodied starter?

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

no need for extra earths or starter buttons, replace the section of wire from the starter back to the brown plugs next to the steering column, and also check the condition of the power lead from the battery to the shunt box, this can cause a voltage drop which when it gets along the circuit to the starter can cause this problem as well as the corroded wiring.

 

I've replaced the brown multiplug above the gearbox with a new IP68 one, never thought about changing the wire from there to into the car as it didn't look coroded.

I might just give that a go and replace the brown connector next to the steering column too with new IP68 one, as the problem with all the electrics so far have been down to these crappy multiplugs.

 

Do you remember roughly many pins it has? so I can get a new connector ordered

edit:

I'm remembering now, I think there's two plugs from the ignition barrel wiring, are these the ones you mean?

I need to take a look to see where the switch wire goes after the multiplug above the gearbox

 

 

I bet it's a big bodied starter?

 

Yes!

Edited June 25, 2009 by ALEX

[sub205 5]

a clicking starter means, the starter-relais is working. when hearing the click there can only be 3 problems:

 

a) dead battery (you see it when your cockpit-light go out when trying to start)

starterrelais-defect (the smaller knob on the upper side of the starter where the main and control wire goes in)

c) defect of motor-coals (the 2 coal-chunks that transfer power to the moving part of the starter)

 

although bosch is a good quality company, this model of their starters just sucks in my oppinion!

 

there are 2 types of starters:

 

the bigger one, i think bosch ones, that have the mounting bracket at the rear and are also mounted to the engine block.

and the lighter ones, which are, i think, from valeo.

 

a friend and i had many problems with the big bosch starters. after changing to valeo, no more problems!

the valeo starters can be found on all newer engines (306, 405 2.0, 406, ...) and seem to be much more reliable.

 

the bosch can even get dead after a few days, when they are brandnew!

Edited June 25, 2009 by sub205

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

a clicking starter means, the starter-relais is working. when hearing the click there can only be 3 problems:

 

a) dead battery (you see it when your cockpit-light go out when trying to start)

starterrelais-defect (the smaller knob on the upper side of the starter where the main and control wire goes in)

c) defect of motor-coals (the 2 coal-chunks that transfer power to the moving part of the starter)

 

although bosch is a good quality company, this model of their starters just sucks in my oppinion!

 

there are 2 types of starters:

 

the bigger one, i think bosch ones, that have the mounting bracket at the rear and are also mounted to the engine block.

and the lighter ones, which are, i think, from valeo.

 

a friend and i had many problems with the big bosch starters. after changing to valeo, no more problems!

the valeo starters can be found on all newer engines (306, 405 2.0, 406, ...) and seem to be much more reliable.

 

the bosch can even get dead after a few days, when they are brandnew!

 

You could have a point as I've heard the other type starters found on 306,405's work without problems before.

maybe I'm just been unlucky buying recon starters from GSF.

I cant decide what to try first now! I'll see if there's any 405, 306's in my local scrappers if I get time this weekend.

Sods law though its didn't do it last night or this morning.... this is why I've never been fixed as it's an intermittent symptom that's more embarrassing than annoying.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The main problem I think is they are Recon, When tested on a bench they will work so I guess only a few parts are changed and hence the problem still, On the GTi 6 there are 2 types of KW rating starter motor's from Valeo, a 1.0 or 1.1 or a 1.4kW, I tend to fit the latter and to date never had a issue

But as said the big bodied one's really are sh*t

Edited June 25, 2009 by Miles

[manrajf 0]

Hi all

 

Iv had this problem for over 2 years now, i also replaced the big bodied starter twice over the 2 years but no luck and a couple of weeks ago i bought a brand new smaller valeo starter, but still got the bloody problem!!! so im going to try do what welshpug recommended and see how it goes. As its truly doing my head in and is quite embarassing sometimes.

 

manraj

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I had this problem years ago too, but had no problems since I sorted the wiring out (I went the relay route) and fitted a 306 diesel starter.

[maturin23 10]

I had the same problem for 5 years. Finally fitted a nearly-new 309 diesel starter, Dan Taylor rewired the whole setup including the ignition switch and it hasn't clicked once since.

[TT205 42]

Also had this problem - was the wiring through to ignition barrell

 

The starter even sounds different now!

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

no need for extra earths or starter buttons, replace the section of wire from the starter back to the brown plugs next to the steering column, and also check the condition of the power lead from the battery to the shunt box, this can cause a voltage drop which when it gets along the circuit to the starter can cause this problem as well as the corroded wiring.

 

 

I pulled out the two plugs last night from the ignition barrel without having to remove any interior panels.

The 6 wires coming from a light grey plastic sleeve down from the ignition barrel go to two plugs, one white (4 wires) and one brown (two wires).

I could reach in and unclip them from the kick panel with enough length to check them out.

The condition of these connectors look fine with no corrosion at all.

If it happens again I've left the plugs hanging in the little pocket under the ECU to wiggle about to see if it helps my starting issue.

I've also priced up a new thin starter, there's 2 in that look like they'll fit.

Ones a petrol engined 306 and the others a diesel 406, I dont know what models or engine size they were though as it was closing up.

[welshpug 1,626]

you don't need to touch the ignition barrel wiring at all.

 

the 2 plugs are the ones at the base of the column with all the engine wiring though them, the ones everyone goes on about when doing an engine conversion, replace the wire from here to the stater, nothing else

[jeremy 68]

you don't need to touch the ignition barrel wiring at all.

 

the 2 plugs are the ones at the base of the column with all the engine wiring though them, the ones everyone goes on about when doing an engine conversion, replace the wire from here to the stater, nothing else

 

I did this by just piggy backing the original wiring, and never looked back.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The other thing to watch, is most Alarm fitter's cut into the ignition wires and cause a high resistance path for the current to flow thou, so you;ve got say a 4mm ignition wire going into a 1mm Alarm wire, Doesn;t really work

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I did have a quick look for the 2 brown pugs at the base of the steering column, but couldn't see anything with the panel on. I was going to have a proper look but got sidetracked in removing the Roof on my CTi instead.

Strangely though it's not done it all weekend or this morning, even when it it's been red hot, ever since I unplugged and disturbed the two plugs to the ignition barrel. It had recently been doing it constantly.

 

I've decided I'm going to leave it till the symptom starts again,

but for future reference to help me find the wire to replace does it go from the starter to the fuse box (through a connector) then to the ignition barrel, or straight to the ignition barrel?

[welshpug 1,626]

find the Grommet in the bulkhead for the engine wiring loom, work back along the loom towards the heater box and you'll find the plugs

 

wire 46 comes from Pin 1 of connector D in the fusebox, through the plug under the steering column, to the starter motor, the ignition wiring also connects to the fusebox.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

find the Grommet in the bulkhead for the engine wiring loom, work back along the loom towards the heater box and you'll find the plugs

 

wire 46 comes from Pin 1 of connector D in the fusebox, through the plug under the steering column, to the starter motor, the ignition wiring also connects to the fusebox.

 

Thanks for that

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Just an update on this.

I've still not had the symptom since touching the connectors to the ignition barrel,

So it must defiantly be a bad connection between the battery to the feed wire to the solenoid.

If the symptom starts again, I'll replace all the connectors and wire from the ignition to the fuse box back to the starter solenoid.

It also looks like the standard Gti Fat Starters, require a greater draw to the solenoid than the slimmer starters found on the 405, 306 Etc.

So that's another option to consider for others.