Connection Rod Bearings (xu10/xu9)

[sub205 5]

Hello,

 

today i got my bearings for my engine. I ordered the XUD9TE-Diesel-Bearings, because i know they will work in an XU9-Engine. But while mounting them in the XU10 i noticed the Nose of the XU10-Bearings is about 0.5mm wider than the XU9-one.

 

Now i can move the bearings a bit left or right.

 

Does anyone know if the nose has a vital effect or whether it is just a help for building engines?

 

The bearings can not rotate and are kept in place. But probably they could move axial way.

[Guest Rallyesmoker]

When you say the Diesel bearing does fit in a XU9, than it won't be a problem. I fit XU9 bearings on a XU10 crank and never had any problems at all.

 

Not with 0,5mm clearance as you say.

 

Notice that there are cranks, that are 24mm, you can't fit your 22mm rod to that, that is realy to much....

 

The size of the rod is important. The bearing size even so, because, with a to smal bearing, the oil will split out early and will make your oil pressure drop a bit. Low oil pressure between the bearings, garanties a short lifetime of those.

 

Now 0,5mm is 0,25mm on each side of the rod. Not quite much and i won't bother it. I never measured the bearings, but have several times fitted a XU10 crank in a XU9 engine with XU9 bearings.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Rallyesmoker

[sub205 5]

When you say the Diesel bearing does fit in a XU9, than it won't be a problem. I fit XU9 bearings on a XU10 crank and never had any problems at all.

 

Not with 0,5mm clearance as you say.

 

Notice that there are cranks, that are 24mm, you can't fit your 22mm rod to that, that is realy to much....

 

The size of the rod is important. The bearing size even so, because, with a to smal bearing, the oil will split out early and will make your oil pressure drop a bit. Low oil pressure between the bearings, garanties a short lifetime of those.

 

Now 0,5mm is 0,25mm on each side of the rod. Not quite much and i won't bother it. I never measured the bearings, but have several times fitted a XU10 crank in a XU9 engine with XU9 bearings.

that sounds good.

 

have you ever used an xu10-rod with xu9-bearings?

 

die xud9te-bearings are fine for xu9-engines, and they will fit perfectly. but the xu10-rods have more space for the nose of the bearing.

thats the only matter.

 

several people told me it is no problem because the bearings hold themselves in place when i screw the rod together and they cant move. the only thing i should notice when the nose is smaller than the noseholder in the bearing is to try to place the bearings middle so the 2 halves sit good on each other and not a bit beside, then its ok because after mounting they wont move sideways because they have pressure holding them in place.

 

but because i had several xu9-engines with failed rod bearings, i am really carefully about any rod bearing issue ;-)

 

i spent about 1000 euros in parts for this engine, a defect rod bearing would be the last thing i want to happen!

 

the xud9te bearings are better than xu10j2 and xu9jaz standard bearings and will run at least 500tkm in an diesel, many more in a petrol so they seem to be ideal.

 

only the nose could be an issue.

[Guest Rallyesmoker]

I've never used a XU10 rod on a XU9 crank. So can't tell you about that....

 

Besides spending much money on one engine, you could try to use some better oil when the bearings keep coming out.... You are using diesel bearings now, but remember that a diesel enigine makes less rpm....Work area of a diesel engine is in low rpm, a petrol one in high rpm. Keep that in mind....

 

I use standard bearings of a XU9 in an engine with a XU10 crank and XU9 rods. Doing over 350Nm of torque and still, after 20.000km no problems at al, always abusing the engine (what it's made for . I DO use Motul 300V 15X50 enigine oil... Maybe thats the secret....

 

'

 

But from what kind of model have you used the XUD9 bearings? Can't find any details about them, because i cant find any model where that engine belongs to...

[petert 554]

Did you know that XU9J4 bearings are copper backed? That may or may not influence your choice of bearings.

[sub205 5]

I've never used a XU10 rod on a XU9 crank. So can't tell you about that....

 

Besides spending much money on one engine, you could try to use some better oil when the bearings keep coming out.... You are using diesel bearings now, but remember that a diesel enigine makes less rpm....Work area of a diesel engine is in low rpm, a petrol one in high rpm. Keep that in mind....

 

I use standard bearings of a XU9 in an engine with a XU10 crank and XU9 rods. Doing over 350Nm of torque and still, after 20.000km no problems at al, always abusing the engine (what it's made for . I DO use Motul 300V 15X50 enigine oil... Maybe thats the secret....

 

'

 

But from what kind of model have you used the XUD9 bearings? Can't find any details about them, because i cant find any model where that engine belongs to...

 

The rpms of the engine are nothing to care about, because higher rpm -> higher nm. A bearing capable of higher newtonmetres is able to do higher rpms.

The information about the diesel bearings is from the manufacturer itself, from a old man in the development division of federal mogul / glyco who knows every material and bearing.

He explicitely told us that the XUD9TE/XUD7TE-Bearings are the best in the price-area of the XU9-bearings to use and will run for at least 500tkm in the diesel engine.

They have a harder surface and wont wear as fast as the petrol ones (which are 2-3euros cheaper).

 

i'm only concerned about bearings because 3 of my engines have died one day with bearing failures and many friends of mine had the same problem when running average milleage (120-160tkm) engines from second sources in their cars. Since the day we change the bearings we had no failures anymore. But one day a friend of mine hat another xu9 bearing failure while driving on a raceway with high sideway forces, oil starvage problem or something. interesting: every time the second baring failed first! maybe because its nearly at the middle of the engine/gearbox-unit or the oil-system has a problem there.

 

btw: the best longlife bearings are from the hdi 2.0! they cost about 3 times as much as the normal ones but are "splatter"-design, a really hard top bearing and a smoother bottom-bearing. about 120euros here in germany at peugeot, probably 70-90euros in the other part-markets.

 

but i dont see a reason why using even stronger bearings. they require nearly perfect oil with no particles circulating because they are so hard.

 

another interesting thing: today i took the rod and looked at it and the old bearings.

 

the old xu10 bearings have the same space as the xu9 and xud9te ones!

inside the rod is a xud9te-shell, and you can see at the right side the pressure form of the old one that was in the engine, exactly the same (changed them after the photo to be sure)

too much wine in the psa development center? ;-)

 

[welshpug 1,626]

XUD is found in 205 305 405 306 406 605 607 806.....

 

I doubt there is anything special about diesel bearings, they are the same material I thought but are available in more oversize gradings than for the Petrol variants.

[sub205 5]

XUD is found in 205 305 405 306 406 605 607 806.....

 

I doubt there is anything special about diesel bearings, they are the same material I thought but are available in more oversize gradings than for the Petrol variants.

nope, they have an other material mix!

 

xud9te is glyco81-material, xu10 is FMH116 and XU9 is something even weaker!

i got this infos directly from the manufacturer, its true.

 

and why else do they have an other surface when they are new?

the xud9 are brighter. if it wouldn't be so they also would have the same order number. the catalog of the manufacturer is about 500-1000 pages thick, with a description of the material in the reference-pages.

[Guest Rallyesmoker]

He explicitely told us that the XUD9TE/XUD7TE-Bearings are the best in the price-area of the XU9-bearings to use and will run for at least 500tkm in the diesel engine.

They have a harder surface and wont wear as fast as the petrol ones (which are 2-3euros cheaper).

 

Good to know that, i'll remember that for the first next engine to be build.

 

the old xu10 bearings have the same space as the xu9 and xud9te ones!

inside the rod is a xud9te-shell, and you can see at the right side the pressure form of the old one that was in the engine, exactly the same (changed them after the photo to be sure)

too much wine in the psa development center? ;-)

 

The wine is always the best excuse, so much different things are found in the PSA engines. BUT, nothing to worry than, so the XUD bearings are the right ones to use.

 

 

XUD is found in 205 305 405 306 406 605 607 806.....

 

Stupid, i was looking in the petrol area..... we are talking about diesel bearings...

Edited May 17, 2009 by Rallyesmoker

[welshpug 1,626]

Interesting to know!

 

I've never seen any of those catalogues, only the ones that don't have the 16 valve XU engines in them and no mention of material or bearing spec, only part numbers.

 

I wouldn't particularly want to use harder bearing, as they cause more damage if they wear excessively or break up.

Edited May 17, 2009 by welshpug

[sub205 5]

Did you know that XU9J4 bearings are copper backed? That may or may not influence your choice of bearings.

 

nope, xu9j4 and xu9jaz are the same bearings!

peugeot order number 0606F9.

 

the copper back seems to have to do with the manufacturer, year of production etc... i noticed that.

[sub205 5]

Interesting to know!

 

I've never seen any of those catalogues, only the ones that don't have the 16 valve XU engines in them and no mention of material or bearing spec, only part numbers.

 

I wouldn't particularly want to use harder bearing, as they cause more damage if they wear excessively or break up.

a damaged bearing normally means that the crankshaft needs to be brought to oversize-bearings, so it does not matter.

i would never use the crankshaft without reshape after a bearing failure, no matter what bearings where used.

 

and at the end, whats cheaper: a repaired crankshaft / engine block or a used block from the junkyard? ;-)

[welshpug 1,626]

in this country, a repaired one!

[sub205 5]

in this country, a repaired one!

i paid 150euros for the xu10j2 engine (with every peripheral component and gearbox, 85000km), ok this price is unbeatable because our mad politicians have a thing called "umweltprämie" which means every person which brings their old car to the junkyard and buys a new one get 2500 euros. totally crazy, do you know how much really good cars just get splashed because the people here think they make a good deal??

 

normal price for an xu9jaz-engine was about 200-250euros (100 - 160tkm), without accessoires like alternator, starter, gearbox.

 

what do you pay for engines in your country?

[sub205 5]

Some pictures of the Engine:

 

[sub205 5]