2.0l Turbo In 205

[Headling 0]

Hi guys,

i have the 406 sri engine in my 205 it starts perfect runs for 5 ish min's (until gets hot) and then dies over a 30 second period, it will start perfect again but will die again within 30 seconds.

 

I have changed the plugs and leads,

there is a constant voltage going to the fuel pump from relay.

Not sure what is the best thing to try next without wasting a load of money hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks Mark

[Headling 0]

Anyone?! I was thinking coil pack? Any ideas would really help!!

[omega 82]

does sound like a coil proplem is it getting hot?

[Rob Turbo 3]

Does it die no matter what you do? Like will it keep running if you hold the throttle open a bit?

[jimbean 0]

Hi guys,

i have the 406 sri engine in my 205 it starts perfect runs for 5 ish min's (until gets hot) and then dies over a 30 second period, it will start perfect again but will die again within 30 seconds.

 

I have changed the plugs and leads,

there is a constant voltage going to the fuel pump from relay.

Not sure what is the best thing to try next without wasting a load of money hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks Mark

 

 

i had a similar problem with my first turbo project

 

it would run fine when cold but die or only run at full throttle when it was hot it was overfueling badly when hot

 

ended up been the ecu at fault /green temp sensor when the sensor got to a cirtain temp it sent the fueling wild... i put another sensor on and it did exactly the same..... but!!!!

 

i got round it by fitting a second a second green sensor and leaving it conected but sitting on gearbox

 

temp sensor never got hot enough to cause the fault in the ecu

 

and is still running like that today

[welshpug 1,626]

i had a similar problem with my first turbo project

 

it would run fine when cold but die or only run at full throttle when it was hot it was overfueling badly when hot

 

ended up been the ecu at fault /green temp sensor when the sensor got to a cirtain temp it sent the fueling wild... i put another sensor on and it did exactly the same..... but!!!!

 

i got round it by fitting a second a second green sensor and leaving it conected but sitting on gearbox

 

temp sensor never got hot enough to cause the fault in the ecu

 

and is still running like that today

 

 

what the??!!!!

[jimbean 0]

what the??!!!!

 

 

baffling it may be but i boke down in bad lands in boro

 

if it started ....the thing would only run flat out

 

so did what any man would do.... came home flat out!!!! i was not leaving it there...

 

in morning ran fine untill hot.... ecu fault

[Rob Turbo 3]

That sounds like a duff lambda sensor to me, I had a calibra that did the same, the lambda is only "listened to" when up to tempreature and then ignored at WOT

[jimbean 0]

That sounds like a duff lambda sensor to me, I had a calibra that did the same, the lambda is only "listened to" when up to tempreature and then ignored at WOT

 

 

it may have been fella.... it will be running closed loop up to a cirtain temp,,,

 

but was totally un driveable when fault occured

 

a fault check with a scanner did not bring it up

 

and it ran fine with another ecu i had in stock... when i sold it i put the old 1 back on

 

 

anyway i dont want to hyjack the post my fault happend bout 5/6 years ago

Edited May 9, 2009 by jimbean

[Headling 0]

Does it die no matter what you do? Like will it keep running if you hold the throttle open a bit?

 

 

sometimes it will keep running if you hold throttle almost flat out, but cant work out if its over or under fueling?? pump the throttle and it will gradually build up then it will rev almost normal if you keep it over 3500-4000rpm but anything less it will just die??????

But while your doing this the missing and poping causes the engine to get hotter and hotter, temp will sit at 3 quarters

[welshpug 1,626]

try unplugging the Lambda sensor.

[Alteran 1]

sometimes it will keep running if you hold throttle almost flat out, but cant work out if its over or under fueling?? pump the throttle and it will gradually build up then it will rev almost normal if you keep it over 3500-4000rpm but anything less it will just die??????

But while your doing this the missing and poping causes the engine to get hotter and hotter, temp will sit at 3 quarters

 

With this description of whats happening to your car then I would say it's a fuelling fault rather than an ignition problem. With an ignition fault normally it'd cut out immediately. Holding the throttle open wouldn't have any effect, it'd just die. As you say it's popping and missing it does seem fuel related. Does it have an AFM? This does sound very similar to the VW's I work on that have an AFM fault. Failing that then as previously mentioned, Lambda sensor or the ECU temp sensor.

 

Liam

[Headling 0]

i had a similar problem with my first turbo project

 

it would run fine when cold but die or only run at full throttle when it was hot it was overfueling badly when hot

 

ended up been the ecu at fault /green temp sensor when the sensor got to a cirtain temp it sent the fueling wild... i put another sensor on and it did exactly the same..... but!!!!

 

i got round it by fitting a second a second green sensor and leaving it conected but sitting on gearbox

 

temp sensor never got hot enough to cause the fault in the ecu

 

and is still running like that today

 

where is the green temp sensor situated?? sounds like a good thing to try not to £££.

[Headling 0]

With this description of whats happening to your car then I would say it's a fuelling fault rather than an ignition problem. With an ignition fault normally it'd cut out immediately. Holding the throttle open wouldn't have any effect, it'd just die. As you say it's popping and missing it does seem fuel related. Does it have an AFM? This does sound very similar to the VW's I work on that have an AFM fault. Failing that then as previously mentioned, Lambda sensor or the ECU temp sensor.

 

Liam

 

doesn't have an AFM, the CAT light doesn't come on straight away though only after 10 odd seconds of rough running so presumed that it wasn't Lambda sensor or am i compleatly wrong??

[jimbean 0]

sometimes it will keep running if you hold throttle almost flat out, but cant work out if its over or under fueling?? pump the throttle and it will gradually build up then it will rev almost normal if you keep it over 3500-4000rpm but anything less it will just die??????

But while your doing this the missing and poping causes the engine to get hotter and hotter, temp will sit at 3 quarters

 

 

with it been heat related it is easyer to fault find....

 

obviously when one of the parts on the engine gets hot it breaks down

 

it can be a suck it and see time but the engine should give you symtoms

 

have you got the k light connected? the ecu will tell you if a fault occurs

 

but it sounds like a over fueling fault as reading your symptoms it seems to run better at full throttle... tps 100% will require lots of fuel

 

if there is no misfire rule out coil

 

as rob said in a earlyer post oxy sensor does controll fueling but if you disconect it... "it may" go into a closed loop setting in the ecu.... this is a failsafe but i cannot remember if this ecu is clever enough to do this... but it is worth a try to see if it alters the fault....

 

the temp sensor if it is heat related it could also be the temp green sensor.... it runs fine cold... so remove the sensor and leave it somewhere it will not get hot... the sensor may be in the water jacket but some were just metal to metal so take it out and see if water come out... if it does use a second sensor

 

is the map sensor pipe conected to the ecu and is it ok/not split....

 

what boost are you running

 

there are lots of factors to check but here are a few to start with

[welshpug 1,626]

the temp sensor if it is heat related it could also be the temp green sensor.... it runs fine cold... so remove the sensor and leave it somewhere it will not get hot... the sensor may be in the water jacket but some were just metal to metal so take it out and see if water come out... if it does use a second sensor

 

 

don't do that FFS, that's just a bodge.

[jimbean 0]

don't do that FFS, that's just a bodge.

 

but itwill tell him if it is heat related!!!!

 

 

 

 

you seem to be missing the point welshpug

 

fault finding is a expesive and lengthy prossess if you took it to a auto elec

 

if you went and could point straight to a part that alterd the fault... this is to find the fault not to fix it... wtf !!!!

 

as i mention on mine i replaced the ecu

[Alteran 1]

doesn't have an AFM, the CAT light doesn't come on straight away though only after 10 odd seconds of rough running so presumed that it wasn't Lambda sensor or am i compleatly wrong??

 

Ah ok so it doesn't have an AFM. Must be MAP type.. So the engine light comes on when the fault occurs? If thats the case then a fault code will be logged. Which narrows down your chance of diagnosis considerably. Are you handy with a multimeter? You could monitor the resistance change at the ECU temp sender and see if it goes open circuit when it reaches the 'running rough' temp.

 

I'm not sure how the ECU's are programmed on those but disconnecting certain sensors, the ECU will revert to a pre determined value that is stored in case of open circuit. I only have VW experience but electronics are all made by the same companies (Bosch/Magnetti Marelli/Denso ect..) so I can imagine everything works the same. So disconnecting sensors is an easy way to diagnose in some circumstances.

 

If you could read the ECU fault memory then it would point you in the right direction. If there are too many faults then erase them all and start again and see which return. Saves you barking up the wrong tree.

 

Good luck,

 

Liam.

[Headling 0]

with it been heat related it is easyer to fault find....

 

obviously when one of the parts on the engine gets hot it breaks down

 

it can be a suck it and see time but the engine should give you symtoms

 

have you got the k light connected? the ecu will tell you if a fault occurs

 

but it sounds like a over fueling fault as reading your symptoms it seems to run better at full throttle... tps 100% will require lots of fuel

 

if there is no misfire rule out coil

 

as rob said in a earlyer post oxy sensor does controll fueling but if you disconect it... "it may" go into a closed loop setting in the ecu.... this is a failsafe but i cannot remember if this ecu is clever enough to do this... but it is worth a try to see if it alters the fault....

 

the temp sensor if it is heat related it could also be the temp green sensor.... it runs fine cold... so remove the sensor and leave it somewhere it will not get hot... the sensor may be in the water jacket but some were just metal to metal so take it out and see if water come out... if it does use a second sensor

 

is the map sensor pipe conected to the ecu and is it ok/not split....

 

what boost are you running

 

there are lots of factors to check but here are a few to start with

 

Thanks for the info gonna have a day of fault finding in the week,

 

sounds like Lambda sensor or ecu temp sensor are gonna be the most likely culprit

 

will keep you posted

[Headling 0]

Ah ok so it doesn't have an AFM. Must be MAP type.. So the engine light comes on when the fault occurs? If thats the case then a fault code will be logged. Which narrows down your chance of diagnosis considerably. Are you handy with a multimeter? You could monitor the resistance change at the ECU temp sender and see if it goes open circuit when it reaches the 'running rough' temp.

 

I'm not sure how the ECU's are programmed on those but disconnecting certain sensors, the ECU will revert to a pre determined value that is stored in case of open circuit. I only have VW experience but electronics are all made by the same companies (Bosch/Magnetti Marelli/Denso ect..) so I can imagine everything works the same. So disconnecting sensors is an easy way to diagnose in some circumstances.

 

If you could read the ECU fault memory then it would point you in the right direction. If there are too many faults then erase them all and start again and see which return. Saves you barking up the wrong tree.

 

Good luck,

 

Liam.

 

Thanks for the info will let you know when ive had a good look at the car in the week