What's Goin Wrong? Please Help

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I have killed the 8v hillclimb engine

 

Wouldn't start at all then after fiddling wires etc it started but had a massive missfire and when I revved it steam/smoke came out of the oil filler tank and the cap for the oil filler tank had white mayonaise which was new

 

The head is now off as I thought it was definitely headgasket, but this seems fine

 

I have a 60thou head skim so run a 10.9 comp ratio, I'm thinking maybe the head could have done with re torqueing or somethin as water might have been getting into the bores, the head did show possible signs of this.........

 

What do you reckon it could be??

 

My next plan is to buy a new maybe uprated headgasket and get the head checked for any warning and then get it all back together and fire it up and see how it runs, checking the dizzy and cap and wiring as I go

[DamirGTI 325]

Cracked liner ? or worn out liner seal perhaps ...

 

Is there any “unusual markings” on the either side of the head gasket particularly around the fire rings ?

 

Damir

[dcc 855]

what about the liner bases? could water be getting forced through somewhere? do you have an oil/water heat exchanger?

for the missfire, did you change the ignition amp?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

the gasket looked ok however the head did show slight marking as if water may have got throu but the gasket looked good which is why I thought maybe the head could have done with re torqueing or somethin because of the comp ratio

 

How can you check the liner seals??

 

I haven't actually changed the ignition amp yet but it was this I was playing round with when I wouldn't start and then it did fire up but with a massive missfire, I might try an get another one to swap over and check the dizzy cap aswel

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok just spoken to matt and nick from qep and shenpar

 

One reckoned its a piston ring or the part on the piston that holds the ring in place which is causing crank pressure etc

 

The other reckons its purely electrical, ie ignition amp or dizzy

 

So I'm gonna get the head checked for warping and a crack test then with a flat edge check if any liners have lifted at all then put it all back together with a new standard gasket I already have and fire it and see what happens

[dcc 855]

if you remove th eliners, you want to be very careful. you might end up with a scrap engine due to excessive wear on the liner seats!

 

to take the pistons and rods out is very easy to do without removing or disturbing the liners! when the pistons are out, you can also check the base of the liners for cracks. to check they are water tight, just block up the holes on the water dist block, and add a few litres of water into the engine (not down the bores, around them and between the block) and check for leaks into the sump!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I have just built the head back on with a un used but not new headgasket I had kicking round just so I could turn it over to test the compression, and all seems fine

 

I wanted to do this as I have been told a few times now piston rings but I was getting between 160 and 180 psi in each cylinder so I'd say that's fine and rings are still intact

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It shows the compression ring is OK, not the others which could be at fault, Did you check the rings when it was apart as the landing's can wear

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

its coming back apart anyway to put a decent headgasket in, I thought checking the compression would rule out rings altogether??

 

How easy is it to pull the piston out, ie sump off, oil pump out, undo rod bolts and pull out piston keeping everything ie shells bolts nuts exactly as they came off????

 

So whats the chances of liner seals goin aswel, what the best way to check them????

[welshpug 1,622]

its coming back apart anyway to put a decent headgasket in, I thought checking the compression would rule out rings altogether??

 

How easy is it to pull the piston out, ie sump off, oil pump out, undo rod bolts and pull out piston keeping everything ie shells bolts nuts exactly as they came off????

 

don't think you'll need to remove the oil pump, and the rest depends on your workmanship and how tidy you work!

 

 

So whats the chances of liner seals goin aswel, what the best way to check them????

 

how old are they? for the sake of how much they cost I'd replace them regardless, the only way you tell when they go is when the water starts mixing with the oil in the sump!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I have no idea how old the liners are to be honest, and it possible the crank was turned with no head on but it lasted a year for me

 

so would it be new liners or just new seals, can it be done with the block in place or does it have to come out? I've taken piston out let alone liners out, is it just a matter of taking the liners out cleaning the surfaces up and re sealing them

 

Thanx for your help btw

[dcc 855]

can be done when in place!

 

the liners come out through the top of the engine very easily!

 

When you take them out, make your you note their direction (which way they face) and order (flywheel - cambelt end), I wrote 1-2-3-4 on aa4 paper and sat them in order as they came out, and later wrote on them in tipex.

 

XU liner seals were £8 for me from a local engine specialist, not sure if I paid a bit ott though!

 

be careful and make sure they come out vertically, would hate for you to damage the liner base.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

so I'm thinking if I'm gonna pull the piston out I might aswel get new liner seals and do the liners at the same time as they could be letting water into the sump

 

where is best to get rings and liners seals from ?

 

Is there any special way to put the seals in then the liners, what's the procedure of cleaning and refitting?

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

If you are going to replace the rings you need to get the liners honed.

[dcc 855]

Right -

Take the liners, pistons and rods to your local engine specialist machine shop and ask them to check the liners and see if they are reusable, ask them to check the base of the block for wear too. if all is good, ask them to hone the liners, ask for liner seals and ask them to check the mains bearings and big ends, get the rods checked for being oval and get the rings changed.

 

Do get this done I spent roughly £120 getting this done. that was with new bearings and rings.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

cool thanx for the run throu

 

Will be difficult for them to do the bearings and check the base of the block as it'll all still be in the car

 

But Yeh ill definitely get them to hone the liners before re fitting, don't really wanna go down the route of new bearings unless they knackered

[dcc 855]

the mains bearings cost roughly £30 and i didnt need new big ends, but i think they are about £70.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

is it not possible to pull the liners out with the pistons in place, just a thought like, u could get access to re seal the liners and they'll be out so can be honed also piston rings can be done with no liners in place??

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

No you cannot get the liners out with the pistons in.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok so the plan now is to strip the piston and liners out marking everything as I go then get a local engine machinists guy round to check the block and crank and big ends and then order new seals and rings then ill build it back up

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok pistons are out, all rings and landings look very intact, havent pulled the liners out yet as they seemed VERY stuck in place and there was no water in the sump at all

 

One good thing to come out of it is that the shells, big ends, are very very scored, quite deep and not just in one direction, some quite deep gowges in the shooting front the middle towards the edge......... Is this normal, are they in a very bad condition?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

what should used shells look like? Should they be scored so badly and in different directions and not just the direction of rotation??

[welshpug 1,622]

they shouldn't be scored at all.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

best I be renewing them then, good things I did this before the engine self destructed lol

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

If they are scored there must be a reason, I would dip the block to clean all the oil ways as quite often the oil tower breaks down and lets the metal mesh fall into the sump/oil ways to cause this. Also buy a new oil tower without fail, anything over 5 years old should be binned and not re-used