147bhp 1.9 Mi16?!?!?!?!

[timmsy19 3]

Well anyhow went for a RR session the other day with a few members from another club im with and my Mi16 came out at 147.2bhp now i know it wouldnt of made 160 but still seems a tad low

 

engine/car spec:

 

Standard 1.9 Alloy block Mi16 69k miles (not been rebuilt i dont think)

Its got an Audi 2.8 Tb. the one with one smaller and one larger butterfly(better power delivery and not so jerky)

Also got a 2" CSC backbox (untill i can afford the groupN DES system)

Standard inlet & exhaust manifolds

K&N cone filter

 

now i know the obveous things thats shout out would be exhaust backbox and K&N filter for a loss in power but should it still be that low? i know ive got a slight air leak which wont help either

 

the guy did say its burning a little bit more oil than it should but that would bring to valve stem seals due to just using unleaded petrol.

 

is it time for a rebuild? or is that VAG Tb really losing that much power?

[welshpug 1,626]

is it a D6C or a DFW?

[timmsy19 3]

oh damn it now your asking

 

i have a feeling its a DFW. how would i tell? i cant remember

Edited March 4, 2009 by timmsy19

[welshpug 1,626]

look for the elusive engine code plate

 

IIRC the DFW has a knock sensor? not clued up on the differences as they aren't that common.

[timmsy19 3]

its running on a 3 row motronic ECU anyhow so i'd imagine its got the knock sensor?? means DFW engine?

 

engine code plate ahhhh slipped my mind been a very long day

Edited March 4, 2009 by timmsy19

[Baz 421]

If it's a DFW it's not as much down on power...

 

But just because it's 3row doesn't mean it is!

[trialster 0]

what fuel are you running it on?

 

that air leak will make the mixture weak so i can't see that helping!

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

It's a D6C with the knock sensor and is still 160bhp if it's run on 98 ron.

In my experience I wouldn't automatically conclude that the engine is tired because of the low result. At one rolling road mine made 148bhp and then at another it made 170! Only difference was that the latter result was with a cold engine on a freezing cold day running V-power.

 

the guy did say its burning a little bit more oil than it should but that would bring to valve stem seals due to just using unleaded petrol.

Eh? Was he trying to say you've got valve seat erosion? Even the pre-unleaded Mi16s have hardened valve seats.

[petert 554]

Late D6C with 3 row had knock sensor but not lambda sensor. They are 354 and 355 ecu's. DFW have both knock and lambda with 158, 161 or 167 ecu.

[martyn180 9]

I was at a meeting the other day, and they were talking about this, how was the install done, you said you have a standard manifold which I think is critical on these so has a spacer been used to tilt it etc, and that the belt timing needs to be spot on, when /who did the belt change.

Never done one, just what I heard so may be talking plop as I only have a 8v

[timmsy19 3]

trialster - was running it on normal 95ron petrol at the time now on 97 or 98 whichever i can get hold of.

 

Kris - yeah the guy said he's done quite a few mi16 205's and he's seen anything from 130 to 170 out of the standard engine. all he said was its burning oil. i'd just imagine something not right

 

Peter - i'll check my ECU now its light

 

Maryn - the install was done with removing some of the bulkhead and welding a new plate in so it uses correct exhaust manifold with no spacer. timing belt was done by the previous owner before he dropped the engine in which was about a week or 2 before he sold it to me. timing seems to be spot on

 

Just to add - its not had an oil or oil filter change in the last 6 months, changed HT leads and spark plugs though

Edited March 5, 2009 by timmsy19

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Graph?

[Batfink 201]

The engine was meant to run super wasn't it so combining that factor and wear and tear over the years, its not truly worrying to be 10bhp down on new....

 

Kev

[timmsy19 3]

If i could scan it i'd post up the graph

 

Although the AFR rate does really drop at 5.5k at which point it sounded like it couldnt push enough exhaust gas out

 

Here's some pictures of the graphs.

 

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f11/timmsy19/DSC00145.jpg

 

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f11/timmsy19/DSC00146.jpg

Edited March 5, 2009 by timmsy19

[Jon_Bmw 13]

It does seem to over richen at 5750>. Thats the sort of AFR's of a turbocharged car IMO. It would definatly sap a bit of power, people reckon for optimum power on a NA engine you want to be around 12.5/13, 13 being more risky but more pokey and 12:1 being a safer AFR and slightly less power. Obviously I understand there is little you can do if its on standard management, tweeking the AFM is unlikely to be accurate and will affect the reading across the board.

 

Torque figures look quite steady across the board, does the surrey rolling road give you a wheel BHP and LBFT figure at all?

 

Any other opinions?

[timmsy19 3]

they do give a LBFT and wheel figure however im unsure as to which one it is on the graphs.

 

i think the dotted line on the first graph is the fFtLB along with the S_HP?

 

the second is AFR:P along with S_HP

 

the third ive got is HP along with FtLB which reads as 120.6bhp which im assuming is at the wheels?

 

Ambient temp was 10c intake temp 13c on all read outs

[CaptainK 11]

the third ive got is HP along with FtLB which reads as 120.6bhp which im assuming is at the wheels?

Thats the important figure - the power you are getting at the wheels. The Crank / Fly figure of 147bhp is just a calculated guess from what is read on the rollers at the wheels (120bhp). Quite often dodgy rolling road operators just up the Crank figures to make it look like the car is more powerful than it is. I've seen N/A cars with 150bhp at the wheels doing 210bhp at the fly. I have the same model of car as this comparison and mine is "correct" at 165bhp wheels and 195bhp fly.

 

Lots of things can make a rolling road give a low value. Only last weekend I was on a RR with my 205 GTi6. On my first run I made around 130bhp wheels / 160 fly. Next few runs I made 10bhp less. They wouldn't work out why until they noticed their RR Air Inlet Temp Sensor had fallen off the gap in the bonnet onto the floor. So lots of little things can affect the power figures.

As long as the power graph looks smoothish and the Air Fuel Ratio is going well, and most importantly it drives well then I wouldn't worry about the indicated power figure.

 

My RR session just showed me that I need to map my 205 GTi6 as the air fuel ratio was a little "wavey".