[race_prep] Philfingers Tarmac 8v To Mi16 Road Rally Project

[philfingers 5]

Well it all started 18 months ago, Spet 2007 when I purchased the car from a guy in Lockerbie, should have started this before really!

 

 

This is the car as I got it, this was the rough spec at the time;-

 

Shell

RAC logbooked, White (paint POWT/EWT Alpine White) 205 non sunroof GTi shell. Floor pan seam welded. Fitted with Safety Devices bolt in roll cage (RACMSA homologation no 614, ID C44, w/o 7868). WMMS forest sump guard and tank guards. Lifeline Zero 2000 plumbed in mechanical system and hand held. Mudflaps and spotlight mounts. OMP strut brace and suede steering wheel with boss. Racetec mirror

 

Transmission

1900 BE1 box fitted with 4.44:1 CWP and Tran X diff. ABMS EN24 drive shafts. Helix cerametallic clutch plate.

 

Engine

Recently rebuilt balanced 1900 motor with new liners, high compression pistons, vandervall bearings, Gp A LAD Head (s/n reputedly suggested it was destined for Richard Burns when he did the original 205 challenge- no documentation tho). PTS Gp A cam (stamped GP A on the end) and vernier cam pulley. Uprated oil pump, PTS big end bearings and PTS baffled sump. PTS Gp N engine mounts. Rolling road tuned at minisport, run on millers full synthetic 10/60 oil. Std distributor. Plugs NGK BCP7ES

 

Fuel/ Inlet/ Exhaust

Std fuel tank, Goodridge braided st/st internal fuel lines with bulkhead fittings. Power boost valve, K&N induction kit. Powerflow st/st twin box exhaust.

 

Steering

Std non PAS rack. Tracking set to parallel, camber 2deg neg.

 

Brakes

Std discs and callipers front and back with Mintex 1144 pads. Tilton bias valve for rear brakes, std handbrake, servo and master cylinder. Goodridge st/st brake lines

 

Suspension

Bilstein PTS platform adjustable front struts with Tar inserts and 225lb springs. Concentric PTS R/J’d top mounts. WMMS R/J’d bottom arms. Rear Tar dampers with 21mm TBs and 23mm ARB. Rebuilt back axle on Gp A mounts. Stud and nut kit.

 

Interior

Momo Monte Carlo and Corse seats on Momo seat mounts, mounted to welded in seat rails. Stripped out interior. Helmet net, OMP spare wheel mount, navigators foot rest. 5 point, 3” aircraft harnesses (out of date).

 

Electrical

Fused and relayed lighting loom. Delimited std ECU. Avanti map light, Brantz International 2 ‘Pro’ trip with remote, Omex rev limiter, Terratrip intercom

 

few more pics:-

 

 

 

The car has done Mull rally 3 times, finishing twice 61st and 63rd, which weren't bad results for an 8v on std injection.

 

My main interest is road rallies so it needed a full interior with door panels, carpets, roof lining etc and numerous other bits.

The old 309 had already been broken and I had some bits ready to fit. Home made rose jointed gear linkage, for £18

 

 

 

 

M8 female rose joints are £3 each, you need 6 and some threaded rod. These do require some maintainence if you were to run them day to day. The lower ones I cover in bicycle inner tube to keep the mud and water out.

 

 

I fitted the battery in the back, to free up some space in the front. Then the interior went back in over the top. Open the cushions up and remove all the steel from the seats, saves weight too. I swapped the rear 21mm TBs and 23mm ARB for std ones. I like a softer back end on the rough roads. Gravel PTS dampers were fitted too. Washer bottle moved inside too.

 

 

 

The car ran well for the first two events but I found the 8v with the gpA cam very cammy and tricky to drive and decided to go for an Mi16. Probably a little more power with much more tractability and better fuel economy.

 

I sourced an engine from an Mi16x4 that a forum member in Cheltenham was breaking. It turned out to not to be a 4x4 engine, but a 2wd one. the addional engine mounting boss on the back of the block had been cutoff. The good news was that it used to belong to member of the PSOOC (Vicki) and it had been previously rebuilt. Of course it didn't have the fabled 4x4 7400rpm rev limit or better midrange cams.. . . . but all that turned out to be horse s*** anyway!

 

This was going to get some attention to prevent oil surge. Gti6 sump, oil pump, chain, pulley, chain guard and windage tray. 8v spacer/stiffener plate, additional baffle and a PeterT extended pump pickup. Infact all the bits were sourced for about £50 and I sold the Mi16 sump and pump for nearly the same!

 

I really wanted to keep the std Mi16 manifold and not fit an angle plate, reangled manifold or a custom one. So the shell was going to have to get modified too. I wasn't happy with the way the seats had been mounted. The seat rails had been welded stright too the sills and tunnel without any reinforcing plates. And the welding was mediocre to be polite. So they needed to be redone too. I very definately wanted PAS as it's a handful without with the TranX on slippy whites. An electric saxo PAS pump was a simple decision, there was one in the spares pack!

 

More to follow,

 

Phil

Edited January 15, 2009 by philfingers

[Sandy 189]

Good to see it Phil!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yep, very nice. You seem extremely proud.

[philfingers 5]

Yep, very nice. You seem extremely proud.

aye, proud when it's all finished! looks a lot different now with all the stickers removed and carpets back in! More to follow!

[philfingers 5]

Just copied from a previous thread, but here's what I did to the Mi16 1900 Alloy block motor:-

 

 

 

Ok here's a little of what I've done, more pics at http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z143/oi...%20Rally%20Car/

 

This setup is:- MI16 engine, Mi16 oil pump and spacer/ stiffener plate. Fitted with GTi6 sump, 26t oil pump drive wheel (fits on the crank), 52 link chain, chain guard, oil pump spring and windage tray. Fabricated chain guard mounts and oil pump baffle with trap door. All important PeterT oil pump extension

 

I used some 10mm steel bar to make some posts 14mm long. Drilled and tapped out to M6 these are welded to the mains bolts. I made them short with the intention of having to space them out to get the height right. Martin (CRF450) had already done this on an Mi16 engine but as it was fitted with a 8v crank (4kgs lighter apparently) I wasn't sure whether the 21mm he suggested would work with the std Mi16 crank. I ended up using 8mm plain nuts as spacers, bit awkward to fit but does the job. Total standoff above the mains bolts is 20mm, so I could have used Martin's suggestion! There's around a 3mm claerance with the crank/ big ends when rotated. M6 bolts used are lockwired in place- don't want them coming loose! Windage tray (new with oil pump spring is £10.73 from a dealer- oil pumpspring alone is 99p + vat, or buy one off ebay for £8 to £10!) needs to be modded to allow the dipstick through into the sump (I used a 1/2" hole) and a little on the back side about half way down.

 

The Mi16 oil pump doesn't have any mounting bosses for the chain guard so I made some up. Note the use of the nuts. Nylocs are affected by hot oil, so these lock on using metal tabs. locktite for good measure. the chain guard stops the oil pump chain from frothing up the oil.

 

Stiffener/ spacer plate needs to have the webs cut out. You can argue that it's not so stiff but the alloy sump is a damn site stiffer than the steel sump pan and I'm not looking for more power (yet ) so I reckon it will work. If you think you need the stiffner webs then you can buy custom ones from PeterT to do just this. In fairness I spent a lot of time making the little mounting posts and welding (that what I called the method of attachment that looks like it was done by a blind monkey with a stick welder!) them to the mains bolts. You can buy the whole setup from Peter and it's a more complete method of mounting the windage tray. You can't use the Gti6 mains bolts, they're M12 and not M11 like the Mi16 ones.

 

Oil pump baffle was made with a lot of trail and error, took me hours. I did do a 'draw around' and I will scan this and post it at some point for anyone else who wants to use it. I made a little trap door for the oil to match the one on the Gti6 sump. Make sure the door is slightly shorter. That way if the sump gets a gentle thump it shouldn't stop it opening. I have a full forest guard on my car so hopefully won't be an issue. The large brass nuts are there for weight to help the door close.

 

Interestingly you can see from the one photo that the distance from the bottom of the windage tray to the max mark on the dipstick is ~47mm. BUT THIS IS FLAT, ie with the sump face flat and not inclined as it would be in the car. Worth thinking about increasing the oil level. Must be a good topic for debate.

 

The two counterbored holes in the front of the GTi6 can drilled (using 1/2" drill bit) 10mm deeper to use the std bolts. The other M7 bolts are 40mm with the exception of the two into the rear main and those are 35.5mm (36mm)

 

 

Oil pump is a Mi16 one fitted with a PeterT extended pickup and Gti6 oil pump spring. I guess you could also use a Gti6 pump too. The drive wheels on the pumps are the same, its the one on the crank that has to be changed to the 26t one with 52 link chain. I made up a little mounting to hold the oil pump in the correct place in the sump pan (fitted with spacer plate too) whilst i made up the oil pump baffle plate. Also the one place where the fourth oil pump baffle plate bolt mounts to the pump I used another M8 plain nuts as a spacer and kept the baffle plate flat. Should see how effective the baffle plate is when I come to the first oil change, it should take a while to drain out!

 

All sealed up with blue hylomar. Don't layer it one, use a thin brush, nice a neat with no excess

 

It will probably be a while before I get around to getting the motor in as it's currenty 8v and I'm going to seam weld the engine bay while i have the time

 

 

 

 

Mi16_Oil_pump_baffle.PDF

[philfingers 5]

Mi16 Flywheel

 

I decided as the motor had been rebuilt not to mess with it. It seemed pretty clean inside, the big ends and mains were ok so I left them. The Flywheel however had some high spots. So Don Loughlin Engineering in Hartlebury skimmed, lightened and balanced it for £50. Made a nice job too. There's not much weight to be shed. It's quiet light as std

 

 

 

 

next installment will be the shell. Will cover seat rails, derusting, wing, headlamp panel, strut tops and pedal box plate but on the inside to avoid pushing the servo out anymore than neccesary with the Mi

[Stu 18]

Excellent work Phil, nice to finally see it, i do feel a bit guilty for not making the effort and seeing it for real being as though we're so close

 

Ill email you my number, so let me know the next weekend you're playing and ill pop over

[petert 550]

Nice work Phil, especially the door on the pump baffle. Are those nylocs though? I wouldn't be using them in the sump. The hot oil will soften the nylon.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

very nice work! keep the pics and spec coming, its a lovely car and good info of things i could do to my car,keep it up!

[philfingers 5]

Excellent work Phil, nice to finally see it, i do feel a bit guilty for not making the effort and seeing it for real being as though we're so close

 

Ill email you my number, so let me know the next weekend you're playing and ill pop over

 

Stu: Should be around next week, have the Thermostat to do on the Audi, it's a 3.5 hr job though, it's behind the cam belt! I'll drop you a mail later in the week

 

 

Nice work Phil, especially the door on the pump baffle. Are those nylocs though? I wouldn't be using them in the sump. The hot oil will soften the nylon.

 

Peter: thanks, no the trap door ones are the same as the ones on the chain cover, their an aircraft style locknut with tabs. and loctite of course! Problem is the sump guard needs to go 1.5" down now and I don't think it's doing to be workable. We'll see

 

very nice work! keep the pics and spec coming, its a lovely car and good info of things i could do to my car,keep it up!

 

Benson: thanks, it's actually more forward than this. The motor is in and in the process of wiring it up. will update when i get the time

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

any updates? i need inspiration!

[philfingers 5]

yep, i tried to start it today and it didn't! will try and add some more tomorrow

[philfingers 5]

The shell prep.

 

 

I was very certain I wanted to use a std exhaust manifold. The story is the re-angled ones crack and there can be problems with angling plates. I didn't want the expense of a custom manifold. So the above picture shows where I plan to cut the bulkhead out to clear the std manifold. Pictures speak a 1000 words, so look ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

So with it all done I was pleased. That was until I popped up to see Stu's car and decided I should have taken some more out, so out came the air tools again, this was the result

 

 

After I finished cutting and welding I fixed some nutserts in and modified the original heat shield to fit.

 

[taylorspug 7]

Good work, one of the tidiest bulkhead mods ive seen, especially with the heatshield re-fitted.

 

Ive never personally had a problem with the manifold reangling plates, and ive fitted a few now. They can be a right pain in the arse to fit though, as you cant see anything and theres exhaust paste everywhere! Not ideal if you're in a hurry.

[philfingers 5]

Well you're right of course. I could have arsed around fitting 20 angled plates to be honest with the time it's taken to do the bulkhead mods. live and learn, would I do it again? Not sure. I plan on keeping the 205 so don't mind doing the work to make it the way I want.

 

Here's some more:-

 

The top engine mount was fitted with 3 buffers (2 x Gp N and 1 x std) all shimmed to fit. The mount was reinforced to the strut top with the 'butterfly'

 

 

Forward subframe mount was seam welded for strength. I didn't go over the top with the welding, just sufficient for my requirements

 

 

You can see here how close the strut top plates are to the bonnet

 

 

I fitted a new headlamp panel. Use a spot weld drill helps to get the bugger off. Wing was removed at the same time.

 

Here it is fitted on from the inside. I did a little bit of welding to the 'splash guard' (or whatever you call it) at the back of the wheel. It was all de-rusted and primed with UPol Etch Primer (£24 for a litre) using a brush.

 

 

The panel was welded on using a mig. Drill some holes in the outside and weld from the outside of the hole to the centre. I should have linished these down properly really using a grinder with a flap disc, if I had you wouldn't have seen the welds

 

 

The wing was sealed on using some body mastic and then spray with HB stone chip (bargain at £2.50 + VAT a can for a litre) and applied using a Shultz gun (£12 +vat). You can see the results here. It's a tough rubbery finish when done. I think I used 3 cans for the whole of the underneath back to including the tank area.

 

 

This is the stuff

 

 

This is the result of the inside tunnel mods. Plenty of room for a heater here, and the std centre console too. You need to keep interior trim for road rally regs

 

Edited February 4, 2009 by philfingers

[edbar 6]

Very tidy! Do you have to enlarge the tunnel to fit the 16v units?

[philfingers 5]

Very tidy! Do you have to enlarge the tunnel to fit the 16v units?

You don't have to. The options are (for Mi16, not sure on others)

 

Std manifold, cut and re-welded at a different angle. Cons are they're prone to cracking

Std manifold with a re-angled plate (bit like a gasket but in steel- well Iguess they're steel). Cons are they're tricky to fit and space is very tight

Custom 4-2-1 manifold. Good but expensive

 

The way I've done mine means that there is plenty of space around the manifold for access

 

here's some more on the mods and work to date

 

 

I fitted the pedal box plate on the inside. It’s a little tricky to get at, you need the dash out really. The benefit of fitting to the inside is that with a servo there are clearance issue with Mi16/GTi6 lumps. If you fit the plate on the inside you don’t push the servo further forward as you would with fitting the plate on the engine bay side as it is designed. There isn’t a reason for using one with a servo. I did it in case I decided to ever fit a bias box, easier to do at this stage.

 

 

The original seat rails in the car were poor. The bars had been welded in direct to the inner sills and tunnel, which is against blue book specs. The reason for using 3mm, 120 sqcm (Min) plates if to prevent the rails punching through the sills or tunnels. There is a school of thought which reckons you shouldn’t fit them to the tunnel, only weld direct to tunnel. In the case of heavy side on shunt the rails will puncture the tunnel moving the seat into the centre of the car where it’s safer. I’d rather have them on plates both sides so this is what I did.

Also the drivers seat was mounted to the original seat cross member at the front, which isn’t very good. Unfortunately the poor seam welding of said item to the floor pan proved more time consuming to remove with the spot weld drill and the grinder (it looked like bird sh*t welding and I thought it would come off easy!), so I only did the drivers side. The Nav’s side is further back anyway and wasn’t in the way so it stayed in place. It must add some stiffness to the floor pan.

 

 

When fitting the plates. Get them all in place, mark the position with a marker pen and hold them in with tape. The shell was level (side to side) so I used a spirit level to get the rails spot on. Tack the rails to the plates. Then remove them to weld bottom side of the rail to the plate, you can’t get access to this once the plates are welded in the car, this way you can weld all four sides. I set mine as low as possible with out them touching the floor. The box section was 20mmsq 3mm thick box

 

 

I used the engine crane to get the front well up in the air. It’s a screw type and nice and sturdy, with out the risk of the oil seals letting go and it collapsing. I then used a drill on a wire brush and some solvent to clean off the underneath and the bits of rust here and there. The car had the floorpan seam welded by the previous owner. However the heat had lifted the underseal and also forms an acid which corrodes. Nothing had been done to treat this and it was red rusty in places, once you pulled the bubbled underseal off. So all loose underseal was pulled or wire brushed off and then it was treated with jenolite (rust treatment), then primed with UPol etch primer (brushed on) before spraying with under seal. It looked so much better all finished

 

 

The area beneath the m/c /servo needed some attention. The brake fluid gets under the underseal here and rusts from the inside out. It looked ok but under the underseal it was red rusty all the way down to the rearward front subframe mounts. There was a small hole. So I cut out the rot with a the die grinder and plated it up.

 

 

Last bit to do was remove the tank and de-rust this area. Again this got, rust treatment, etch primed and undersealed. I ‘boxed’ in an area to mount the fuel unions to, gives more spaces at the back for connection to the pump.

 

 

This completes the underside and engine bay work. The whole lot got stone chipped in vunerable areas, then etch primed, then painted with cellulose paint in POWT (Alpine?) white. I’d never used a spray gun before and finish is ok for first attempt. Wing will need doing again on the outside once it’s rubber down.

 

I did a trial fit of the engine and box. The manifold clearance was great. Once I’d carefully cut around 1.75” out of the exhaust downpipe and welded the mounting flange back on it took literally 15 mins to bolt the whole exhaust system on (by myself). Whether modifying the tunnel/bulkhead is worth the time I don’t know. It’s a lot of work, the benefit is a std manifold and probably more space than an 8v to access the mounting bolts etc

 

[Stu 18]

Looking good Phil, out of interest, are the fuel unions purely there so you can run the lines inside the car?

 

I quite like that idea to be honest, ive been trying to think of neat ways to sort the fueling pipe runs out when i switch to the carb setup.

[welshpug 1,622]

ahh bulkhead fittings, how much were thy and what kinda fuel hose do you use with them?

[snooks 5]

The wing was sealed on using some body mastic and then spray with HB stone chip (bargain at £2.50 + VAT a can for a litre) and applied using a Shultz gun (£12 +vat). You can see the results here. It's a tough rubbery finish when done. I think I used 3 cans for the whole of the underneath back to including the tank area.

 

This is the stuff

 

 

I've had a quick search for the Shultz gun but could only find it on ebay. Could you let me know where you got yours from?

[philfingers 5]

I got mine from Romart Automotive. You'll get it from any automotive trade paint suppliers. It was called a shultz gun on the invoice but it's a generic thing.

 

Stu/Weshpug - yes they are bulkhead fuel lines. They were already in the car when I got it but about £300's worth all in i think, not cheap. I've got a Demon Thieves invoice for them somewhere. . .. .will look when i get 5 mins

[philfingers 5]

£217 in Jan 2004

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

have you got pics of what you did to get the sump guard on?

did you just bend it to fit around the sump or is there a way of fitting it lower down for clearence?

love this car!

[philfingers 5]

It's a full PTS type gravel guard. I had to chop a heap of bits off the GTi6 sump. Wish I'd done it before a fitted it. I spent a hole evening with it fitted (but without rad and fan housing) cutting bits off and in the end had to remove it anyway and use selection of grinders, cutoff saws, recipricating saws and a die grinder.

Still the guard won't fit, but bear in mind I have a GTi6 sump AND the spacer. The problem is there's a big bulge at the front of the sump. At the moment with the back bolted up it looks like the front needs to be fitted around 1.5" lower, which is far too low. But dropping the back 1/2" may mean I can drop the front only 1".

I've got all the suspension back on now. Still got front bumper to go and some paint to apply to new wing, then trim, seats, harness, bleed the brakes. It's taking forever!

 

Phil

ps in answer:- no pics yet. Will sort the guard once it's all up and running

Edited February 8, 2009 by philfingers

[Spiky 37]

just seen this,

 

great looking car matey , lots of nice touch's on there