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B1ack_Mi16

Cam Sensor Wiring Issues Xu10J4/j4Te

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B1ack_Mi16

As I've finally got my engine running I'm quite pleased the MS3 Pro setup actally seemed to work quite well more or less straight out of the box when the basic parameters was in place.

 

But I have an issue, the CAM signal is unstable and I get sync error on this signal.

 

I wired it like this:

Pin 1 - +12v

Pin 2 - ECU Signal input

Pin 3 - ECU common earth

 

Which I believe should be correct.

 

However it does not work too well.

 

But somehow I found this file on my PC that Petert have made sometime in the past.

 

post-3331-0-79650800-1481841529_thumb.jpg

 

Adding some resistors to the wiring. Is this a general way of wiring such sensors, also applying for the MS3 Pro, or should it not be necessary?

 

Are anyone able to shed some light on the topic?

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petert

The 100Ω is a current limiting resistor. I don't use it anymore with the XU10J4 sensor. It's proven to be reliable taking a straight 12V input after many years of service. The 1kΩ is a pull up resistor, designed to hold the trigger input at +12V until it's grounded by the sensor, helping to create a very square input wave. I don't use that anymore either, as my ECU has it as a check box input option. I have no idea with the MS3 Pro but it was necessary with older Siemens hall effect sensors and older ECU's.

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B1ack_Mi16

Hm, OK.. Well when I do log the trigger signal the 60-2 signal is very very nice looking.

 

The CAM trigger also shows good, but it misses totally now and then and doesn't detect the tang passing the sensor at all.

 

But I can try then to add a 1kOhm resistor between the 12v and signal wire to see if things improve, shouldn't do any harm I guess?


Also, the wires for the CAM sensor are not shielded as for the CRANK sensor...

 

Might this be an issue? I don't think it was shielded OE either?

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petert

I would be shielding it as a matter of course. Earth the shield back at the ECU. Having just the 1KΩ resistor can only improve the situation, if it's not already toggled in the software. Adding the 100Ω resistor will slightly decrease the voltage available at the sensor.

 

The cam sensor can also have problems when it gets old. It typically works fine at idle-low revs but then looses itself above 4000. A Hyundai 16V uses the same sensor, so cheap and easy to swap.

Edited by petert

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B1ack_Mi16

Ordered some resistors now, but will try to change the sensor first.

 

I mounted the tang a bit off, so it doesn't totally align the opening in the housing when crank is in timing position, but I guess the actual location of the tang is not too important?

 

What I wonder though, is that I have not been able to find a way to set whether it is cyl 1 og cyl 4 that is supposed to fire on the rotation where the tang passes the CAM sensor?

Is that not needed?

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petert

Sorry, I didn't mention, but if using the current limiting 100Ω resistor, it needs to be at least 5W. Otherwise it will quickly self destruct. I don't think the actual trigger position is vitally important, provided it is happening before #1 trigger event, which is approx. 112º BTDC? It's a question you'll need to ask on an MS3 forum.

Edited by petert

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B1ack_Mi16

Ok, so the spike is at least supposed to happen not long before the Cyl 1 is supposed to trigger... well that was more or less what I needed to know.

I've asked the MS3 forum too, little slower response there :)

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B1ack_Mi16

Sorry, I didn't mention, but if using the current limiting 100Ω resistor, it needs to be at least 5W. Otherwise it will quickly self destruct. I don't think the actual trigger position is vitally important, provided it is happening before #1 trigger event, which is approx. 112º BTDC? It's a question you'll need to ask on an MS3 forum.

 

Ok. The timing was set to 115deg and was then spot on TDC, so I guess it would be 115 deg in my case.

 

Does that mean that if I rotate engine to TDC, ensuring it is the cyl 1 power stroke that is going to happen next and then rotate the engine like 180 degrees backwards, and then make sure that the tang more or less overlaps the CAM sensor?

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wicked

I would remove the 100 ohms from the supply line; in general it's not good to have resistance in the supplies.

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B1ack_Mi16

I would remove the 100 ohms from the supply line; in general it's not good to have resistance in the supplies.

 

I didn't order the 100Ohm one anyway, just some 1kOhm ones to see if it might help.

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B1ack_Mi16

I did some investigations today, and did some minor adjustments in the software setup, including adding some software based "filtering" to the signal.

Now it looks like this and works with proper Coil On Plug setting.

 

Is this correct then, the CAM sensor seem to trigger just before the 60-2 wheel arrives at the missing teeth.?

 

Trigger_04_zpsr1syowdm.png

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petert

Yes, that would be correct. If 60-2 setting is 115º BTDC, then cam sensor should fire at 120º for example. In some ECUs, the cam sensor is also the end of the injection period. Meaning you should ideally make sure the cam sensor triggers before the inlet valve closes. With standard mild cam timing, you would want this to occur at around 125º BTDC. You'd need to do some researching in the software and on-line, to determine whether you have software control of the end of injection point.

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petert

Yes, that would be correct. If 60-2 setting is 115º BTDC, then cam sensor should fire at 120º for example. In some ECUs, the cam sensor is also the end of the injection period. Meaning you should ideally make sure the cam sensor triggers before the inlet valve closes. With standard mild cam timing, you would want this to occur at around 125º BTDC. You'd need to do some researching in the software and on-line, to determine whether you have software control of the end of injection point.

 

Sorry, I messed that up by 360º. It should read:

Meaning you should ideally make sure the cam sensor triggers before the inlet valve opens.

 

You can't fire before the missing tooth trigger at 115º anyway.

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B1ack_Mi16

Ok, thanks.

 

The CAM sync seem to be a bit on and off, sometimes it is ok and sometimes not. I guess I might try that 1kOhm resistor as a start.

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B1ack_Mi16

Added two 2.49kOhm resistors (just because I had them lying around) in parallell between +12v and ECU signal, and now it has perfect CAM sync signal :)

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petert

Excellent. I've used as low as 0.82 and high of 1.5 without ill effect.

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Andy

I think this thread has answered my question which is about the cam sensor. I need to buy a new one, and assume that they are Hall effect sensors. My Emerald ecu has several stabilised sensor output voltages. I assume that these Hall sensors need 12v supply rather than 5 or 8 Correct?

Andy

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petert

I'm not sure it matters. I think it just earths what ever voltage is there.

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Andy

Thank you. That makes life a bit simpler

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petert

I have access to a mint 2L Mi16. I'll verify after Christmas what the supply voltage is.

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welshpug

its 12v, pin 6 of the relay to pin1 on the sensor.

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