My Stdt Has No Oomph Since New Cam Belt & Water Pump. Any Ideas ?

[Oberon 0]

Hi all, basically i fitted a new cam belt and water pump quite a while ago and managed to get the timing set so it runs ok.

 

Before - the car ran fine, turbo came in as normal at around 2K. After - car does run ok until the turbo is supposed to do its thing. All that happens then is not alot, except a proper unhealthy straining noise and little power.

 

I was convinced the turbo had packed in, but could it be anything else?

 

On cold starting there is alot of white smoke which has gradually got worse, this goes when the engine warms up.

I am having to warm the glow plugs twice for starting, so a new set are on my list. I guess the smoke is down to this ?

 

I have had a brief look up from underneath but can't really see alot and don't really know what to look out for.

 

It is just too much of a coincidence that this problem arose after working on the car.

 

I was just going to look out for another turbo and possibly manifold + intercooler but now I'm thinking it may be something else that I'm not aware of.

 

I have been driving the car around like this for ages now (driving miss daisy style) albeit slowly, I just hope this has'nt caused more damage.

 

Any pointers would be really appreciated, I'm getting tired of being overtaken by for fiesta's !

[trialster 0]

have you tried resetting the timing up?

 

i changed a water pump and timing belt the other day on our 1.6 gti and the engine didn't run atall correctly when the timing marks were in the perfect position - so we took it a tooth round on the top pulley (so that the original timing marks didn't line up) , and hey presto

[welshpug 1,626]

the white smoke that's getting worse to me points to a headgasket, what was the condition of the water pump when it was changed?

 

other than that it could be a boost leak.

[snooks 5]

Double check the timing would be my first port of call.

[Anthony 1,000]

As said, almost certain that the cam/pump timing is out by a tooth.

[Oberon 0]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, I have tried the timing which I've got down to miniscule adjustments via pulling / pushing on the pump.

 

I think I've got as good as I can athough it is may not be 100% spot on, when cold it is not perfect but as the engine warms things normalise.

 

I will try again to get this timing pain in the behind spot on.

 

The old water pump was in quite good condition from what I remember.

 

The main thing that I am concerned about is the lack of any boost. Is there any hoses I should check?

 

The turbo I beleive does try to do its job but its as if its not getting the extra fuel that it should, or something?

 

Cheers

[Fox 3]

I'm not sure if the pug pumps have these, but worth a check

 

Is there a small diameter pipe from the turbo to the pump? This is the fuel advance solenoid, may have dropped off

 

Without it, it wont advance the fueling, and will seem like the turbo is not working

[Fox 3]

Edit, white smoke is usually unburnt diesel, does it take a while to fire up? Does it start on 1 or two cylinders then bang like hell until it gets going?

 

If so, glow plugs, or a problem with the cold start valve. Try new plugs and check the wiring to them

[Cameron 16]

Yeah the white smoke will be unburnt fuel, as it happened after changing a belt I'd say it was 99.997% that it isn't timed up properly. The pump timing on a diesel is the most important thing for getting it to run right, as it essentially controls both the fuelling and ignition timing.

 

You need to set it up properly when installing a new belt as it will stretch, and that means getting a DTI (dial gauge) and setting the piston. Then install the belt again & tension it and it should run a hell of a lot better. Setting it up so its "about right" won't do, that's why diesel timing belts generally cost a fair bit more to have changed.

[SeanO'Connor 0]

I agree with pump timing, especially if it was ok before you changed the belt. If that is all you have done, that's all it can be, unless something wasn't working properly before you changed the belt. Be honest with yourself and check the timing properly.

[Oberon 0]

Cheers for the advice.

 

I read that the pump timing is advanced slightly when cold. Would this mean that I need to retard the timing slightly ?

 

Sean/Cameron

I'm guessing the push it / pull it a bit method is not accurate enough then. Anyone recommend a timing kit for the Lucas pump?? And or some who could do it for me for a reasonable price??

 

I'm thinking that paying someone in the know may just be more sensible, any ideas on how much I may expect to pay for

getting the timing done properly?

 

Yeah Fox

I think its running on all cylinders..Where would I find the cold start valve?? She starts fine if i warm the plugs twice first.

 

Fuel advance solenoid sounds promising for the turbo problem..

 

I have a feeling I may have disturbed something when my dad said to " jack the engine up " meaning support the engine on the jack.

 

Do you know where would I find this / get to it??

 

Cheers.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Oberon

[SeanO'Connor 0]

I would have thought a local garage will check/set your pump timimg for around an hours labour, that would be fair, one other option is call thee aa and say you have broken down, they might do it for you free.

[Oberon 0]

Cheers for the advice guys.

 

Got the timing sorted. Put a new set of glow plugs in with oil change.

 

The white smoke has reduced significantly but not totally gone (when cold) and the car is generally running better than before.

 

I am going to change the fuel filter in the next few days, and while i'm there check the cold start solenoid. While i'm there i'll check the injectors ( haynes method ). If i find a suspect injector or two can they be cleaned or do they need replacing as standard??

 

There is a worrying rattling noise now though to add to things, not all the time and seems to occur under load. I'm wondering if this is the turbo.

 

I used a part synthetic oil i am now wondering if that was a good idea as this engine is old school.

 

I think the car needs to come off the road for a while, with the tax to be renewed this month i think the 106 will have to be used till i get my car fully sorted.

 

I was thinking of getting the 1.9 TD engine at some stage and that stage may be now. I believe it is the d8 engine? (pre ecu)

Does any body know if it is better to get it out of a particular model??

 

Would one from say a ZX or Xantia fit in or would it be easier to fit one from a 306 or 405?

 

Cheers or any help.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Oberon

[dirtdog 4]

Any XUD seires will fit it..well maybe not the XUD11 without a little work, but thats a diffrent story.

 

Is the rattling a loose exhaust bracket or something?

[Oberon 0]

Is the rattling a loose exhaust bracket or something?

 

Dirtdog cheers mate. Yeah it could be something like that, I'm hoping. Its just really hard to see/feel anything for lack of space.

 

Me old man said it sounded like the cam gaps need adjusting, but reading the haynes book it has shims for adjusting it. The motor has done 120K.

 

How can I tell if the turbo itself is knackered? It does feel like it is working just not nearly as it should.

 

Is the dw8 the XUD9te with the round ports as in the 306 Dturbo?

 

I've noticed quite a few citreons in the scrappy, zx's and xantias, do you know what models had the front mounted intercooler?

What is the best way to judge a used engine, mileage?

 

Cheers in advance.

[easypug 0]

Might be a boost leak.

 

Best way to test an engine is to use it, failing that do a compression test.

[Cameron 16]

Could just be good old diesel knock? Those engines aren't exactly refined.

As for pump timing, I think the Haynes manual should give a pretty comprehensive guide to doing it. You don't need any fancy kits, just a dial gauge and you can get them for peanuts.

[jplautomotive 0]

Is the dw8 the XUD9te with the round ports as in the 306 Dturbo?

 

.

 

the dw8 is a non turbo lump as found in 206/ partner vans etc was replacement for non turbo xud9

 

has a differerent head to a xu , glow plugs different place

 

i have a pug TEP 92 with timing attachment but i a bit far from you

 

front mount intercooler came in 406 605 xantias more than likely more but them i can remember

 

jonny

Edited January 18, 2009 by jplautomotive

[Oberon 0]

cheers jonny.

 

There is a 306 Dturbo L reg going with no mot or tax near me mechanically sound, would the engine go straight in to me 205 ? Do they have an ecu or anything like that?

 

I am starting to wonder wether I can be bothered with all the trouble of sorting this car out.

 

For the time and effort I might as well go and buy a Gti and go through some ball ache sorting that out, and least at the end of all the hard work I'll have something enjoyable.

 

Cheers Raj

[jimistdt 1]

Easy Raj,

 

I thought you and your old man would have had this wrapped up by now, the pug diesel engine is so simple its second only to......well me!

 

If you've got any diesel specialist in your area it might be worth giving them a bell and leaving the car with them for an afternoon, this engine is still used now in Partner vans and what have you. If I were you I'd be more tempted to find whats up with this one than going and transplanting more blocks.

 

I admitted defeat with mine, handed it over to a diesel garage and they found all sorts of trivial sh!te, and to be fair it was the best thing I did.

 

 

The pug diesel has got a good reputation for a good reason, it's a good engine.

 

 

 

Sort the fcking thing out and start enjoying it.

 

 

Peace and happiness to all.

 

 

(I'm over the the legal limit BTW)

[Oberon 0]

Nice one Jimmy.

 

The timing is sorted now, just got

 

a ) the turbo problem and

b ) the new VERY unhealthy rattle (since the new glow plugs were fitted).

 

to sort out /find source of and sort out. ?.

 

And your probably right jimmy they are probably piddly little things (one hopes).

 

Big ball ache, though.

 

Ps Stay off the red diesel its strong old stuff

[jimistdt 1]

Whats the mileage on your motor, Raj?

[Oberon 0]

Jimmy,

 

My mileage is 120K give or take.

 

I hope you are right when you say the problems I am having are probably down to small things.

(Such as the huge puddle in the passemger footwell i found this morning )

 

I last changed the oil a week or two ago it is already black.

 

The oil that came out was thick black sludge although it was'nt over due a change, but was overheating a bit in summer.

 

I'm thinking the oil feed for the turbo is gunged right up. Any suggestions as to how to get better access to the back?

 

I had little look round today to try and find anything to account for the rattling. I found a couple of things like detached hose bracket, but that did'nt solve the noise.

 

The hose from fuel pump to manifold was tightened at the pump end, this did'nt help the turbo though.

 

One thing that I did find was that the spring on the manaul stop lever for the fast idle I think, was not on at all. So i put that back on and adjusted the idle slightly.

 

I also checked if the new glow plugs were contacting with any thing such as valves, but they were unmarked.

So the rattle is there still, i've noticed that it only occurs when the engine is well warmed.

 

What does a spun bearing sound like ?

 

Cheers Jimmy

Edited January 25, 2009 by Oberon

[jimistdt 1]

You might be on the right lines with the Spun Bearing. It could tie in with the bad oil you took out.

 

Is there any chance you could post up a video of the noise?

[Oberon 0]

You might be on the right lines with the Spun Bearing. It could tie in with the bad oil you took out.

 

Is there any chance you could post up a video of the noise?

 

 

Afraid not Jimmy I can't get me pics/vids off me and phone an onto the computer, me usb port driver or sumthing.

 

Also it does'nt occurr all the time. For instance i drove it to college today which is a bit of a trek and it sounded worse than ever, like something was about to go BANG..

 

By time I got home hoping to let the old man listen it had stopped ??????????????

 

Strange.