Which Sized Torsion Bars

[Martin W 0]

I have a 25mm ARB and am looking for an appropriate sized torsion bars for the rear. The front will run 250 or 275lb springs and the car is soley used for track days.

 

I have heard in the past that people run as stiff as possible, but given there is abour 50% chance of rain at a trackday I need a setup that is a compromise. I have considered 23mm TB's to match the 25mm ARB I already have but my concern is that this will be too stiff for some tracks, bearing in mine my 205 is completely striped out and is very light at the rear, and for bumpy tracks (eg Llandow), in the wet it will be too lively at the rear.

 

Due to my job I dont have the time to spent 'switching' setups so was interested in what set up other people run.

 

Any thought welcome ...

[James_R 3]

23's sound about right then run no ARB's when it rains

[Alastairh 47]

I run this setup!

 

23mm TB, 25mm Arb, 275 lb springs on the cheaper Gaz coilovers and find it handles very well.

 

In the wet its fine, even with the paradas. Certinly not dangerous with the original 205 front ARB attached.

 

Gary also runs similar setup with his GTI16S with an extra 5 lb spring on the front for the iron block and heard no complaints...

 

Mine is a road car mainly with the odd track day. But when i did use to use the car (Up For Sale now) i commuted 70+ miles a day including alot of country lanes.

 

Al

Edited September 16, 2008 by Alastairh

[Martin W 0]

I also run the thicker 309 front ARB which is great in the dry. Interesting you say 23mm Torsion bars, I was considering 21 or maybe 22mm TB's on the rear but that isn't a very common set up. Most people just seem to go with 23mm tbs and 25mm arb, the only reason I considered this was because I'd be keeping the 2mm difference between the arb and tb's.

 

If I went for 23mm tb's then I think I would need to run 275lb spings on the front. My only concern then it that it will be a very stiff setup in the wet. I've never driven the car with the front arb disconnected but my understanding is that this would lead to alot of oversteer, not good in the wet!!

 

I'd be using the Gaz Gold coilovers to get bump and rebound adjustability. It makes sense to if the group buy goes ahead. But I haven't heard of anyone running the Gaz Gold coilovers, but they should be good if the Leda guy(s) have moved accross to Gaz.

[James_R 3]

You'd disconnect/remove front and back ARB's in the wet, works very well and reducing understeer from the rain, make the handling less sketchy.

 

in comparision I was running 285 front 205 front, 24/27 rear and swapped to a 19mm arb in the wet, I'm changing up to 300 front 309 front arb 25/30 rear, although I have some 350's for the front too I will try/swap if the nose isn't right still.

[Martin W 0]

You'd disconnect/remove front and back ARB's in the wet, works very well and reducing understeer from the rain, make the handling less sketchy.

 

in comparision I was running 285 front 205 front, 24/27 rear and swapped to a 19mm arb in the wet, I'm changing up to 300 front 309 front arb 25/30 rear, although I have some 350's for the front too I will try/swap if the nose isn't right still.

Keep us posted on the progress, I always though over 300lb was too high for a 205 so it will be interesting to hear your results.

[James_R 3]

Really comes down to tyres you run, full slicks would be in the 600-700lbs area, so on semi's I'm partly expecting 300 to be too little and jumping to 350, certain Garry's car felt a bit soft on the nose with 888's at the ring and a 23/25 309 rear (which is softer than the set up ran/will run) but not sure whcih ARB he was on though

[Martin W 0]

Really comes down to tyres you run, full slicks would be in the 600-700lbs area, so on semi's I'm partly expecting 300 to be too little and jumping to 350, certain Garry's car felt a bit soft on the nose with 888's at the ring and a 23/25 309 rear (which is softer than the set up ran/will run) but not sure whcih ARB he was on though

That’s interesting because I plan to run about 2 degrees of -ve camber on the front and I use Toyo 888's or Yoko 48's. I am thinking of using 275lb springs on the front and maybe 22mm TB's / 25mm ARB in the rear and seeing how this setup goes. I'm not too worried about changing spring rates at the front because they are relatively inexpensive.

 

I have not worked out what the spring rate would be at the rear but going by others setup's this would probably suit me.

[James_R 3]

It really comes down to how circuit/road bias you want the car to be, mines about 95% on the track end of things now, that said having been out in a porsche yesterday i'm pretty sure mine remains a more practical road car than that, have you seen the "boot" space they have?? rubbish

 

23's you won't go far wrong, if it's softly sprung it will be ok in the wet, what engine are running alloy block??

[Martin W 0]

It really comes down to how circuit/road bias you want the car to be, mines about 95% on the track end of things now, that said having been out in a porsche yesterday i'm pretty sure mine remains a more practical road car than that, have you seen the "boot" space they have?? rubbish

 

23's you won't go far wrong, if it's softly sprung it will be ok in the wet, what engine are running alloy block??

 

My 205 is a track only car, well it gets driven to circuits but comfort is not an issue as it has no heater or radio! I really just want to avoid making significant changes to the set up if it rains, hence the lower spring rate. My main worry was that with thicker TB's the rear would be 'very light' in the wet, but if I can just disconnect the arb's in the wet its probably worth going for 23mm tb's so I dont sacrafice it too much in the dry.

 

My 205 has an alloy block Mi16 so its not that much heavier than standard.

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

I've got some 22mm TB's & a 24mm arb for my 309 beam but have yet to try them out although I think Anthony was running these sizes on his car for a while & it was fine in all weather conditions.

 

These were the biggest I considered as the car did see road use but if I was buying some again I'd probably go for 23mm tb's, mnost of the use my car sees is driving to & from a trackday really so everyday road comfort isn't much to consider.

 

I've got a full BBM group A mount it & I'm sure its a smoother ride with that & 20mm tb's 24mm arb on a 205 beam than it was on group N rears mount, standard up front before i made the change.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,000]

I've got some 22mm TB's & a 24mm arb for my 309 beam but have yet to try them out although I think Anthony was running these sizes on his car for a while & it was fine in all weather conditions.

Yup, it's been driven in all weather with the uprated bars - rain, shine, and snow - and I've had no problems at all with it

[James_R 3]

That's cause you drive like a pensioner anyways

 

 

From experince ACB10 (wet slicks) and 285 front was too soft at cadwell park, have some pics of the back wheel a few miles in the air coming in to the bottom of the mountain with shuttle at the wheel lol

[Martin W 0]

From experince ACB10 (wet slicks) and 285 front was too soft at cadwell park, have some pics of the back wheel a few miles in the air coming in to the bottom of the mountain with shuttle at the wheel lol

Thats the problem I've been having, the rear wheel is so far off the ground it unreal!

[James_R 3]

It's a compramise though, have dry perf, or have wet perf, or 50/50, but then the car's never 100%

 

If you run a plate diff then bigger front ARB that you remove a drop link from in the wet (5min job) with a softer spring rate isn't sooo bad. or makesure the tyres don't get too cold

[Anthony 1,000]

From experince ACB10 (wet slicks) and 285 front was too soft at cadwell park, have some pics of the back wheel a few miles in the air coming in to the bottom of the mountain with shuttle at the wheel lol

I'd hardly call it a mile in the air, but still...

 

[James_R 3]

That's not the mountain (bottom of) though that's the right at the end of the tree's harldy a balls out corner when they put 2 ton haybails in your exit lane/field enterance line

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

That's not the mountain (bottom of) though that's the right at the end of the tree's harldy a balls out corner when they put 2 ton haybails in your exit lane/field enterance line

They aren't haybails, just made to look like them to put you off chancing hitting them. Someone hit them on Monday in a R5 GT Turbo & hardly did any damage. IIRC he said they were foam.

 

When I had one of the 106's following me round from Chris Curve to Gooseneck he said my back wheel was clearly about 4" off the ground for a while when I saw him in the pit later & thats on road tyres with 20mm tb's & a 24mm arb.

 

Graham.

[Super Josh 4]

thats on road tyres with 20mm tb's & a 24mm arb.

 

Which front springs are you running to match the 20mm TBs Graham?

 

 

Josh

[James_R 3]

Ohh Good effort Graham

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

Which front springs are you running to match the 20mm TBs Graham?

Dunno, whatever generic springs that were supplied with the Koni kit I was given.

 

They lower the car approx 40mm & the Koni's are set to almost full hard adjustment iirc.

 

Graham.

[28CRAIG 2]

This is a pic of mine with 22mm tb's and 24mm arb but with standard front on r888's it is far to soft on the front so the back end just lifts so easy even on he road looks good but not the fastest way to get round a corner.

 

As for in the wet i find there is loads of grip from the back end even with he 24mm arb in so i would go for at least 23mm tb's for a track car if not more then use a standard arb for the wet.

[Martin W 0]

Thanks for the comments chaps, I've decided on a set of 23mm Torsion Bars for my 205 beam.

 

BUT, I need to find a pair, also looking HERE.

 

Does anyone either have any or know where I get get a set? Most places only sell 20/21mm tb's.

 

Thanks

Martin

[Spiky 37]

This is a pic of mine with 22mm tb's and 24mm arb but with standard front on r888's it is far to soft on the front so the back end just lifts so easy even on he road looks good but not the fastest way to get round a corner.

 

As for in the wet i find there is loads of grip from the back end even with he 24mm arb in so i would go for at least 23mm tb's for a track car if not more then use a standard arb for the wet.

 

 

so to improve the front dipping, would 309 front make much difference?

 

i run 300lbs at thr frontm, would i be better with 350 maybe?

[Alastairh 47]

so to improve the front dipping, would 309 front make much difference?

 

i run 300lbs at thr frontm, would i be better with 350 maybe?

 

Be careful. Your compairing 8v alloy block motor for 16v iron block...