Why Is My Car Eating Starter Motors

[jamiej 0]

I changed my starter motor recently as the solenoid had gone.

 

The replacement starter has gone again with exactly the same problem. The replacement was not new, it was from a 306 GTi6. Was i maybe sold a slightly tired starter or could there be something going on, seriously lowering the life expectancy of the starter motor.

 

Think i may have to bite the bullet and get a new one from GSF. I dont want to have the starter again.

 

Any suggestions welcome

 

Jamie

[jonnie205 1]

the recon ones are very poor quality, best bet is to fit used valeo ones

[jamiej 0]

the recon ones are very poor quality, best bet is to fit used valeo ones

 

The one which i have just fitted was a used one from a member on this forum

[steve@cornwall 100]

The one which i have just fitted was a used one from a member on this forum

 

What are the symptoms? Many starters are changed due to connection / wiring faults. Also, is the dowel still present to align the starter? If not it's possible both starters have twisted out of alignment with use (no matter how tight the bolts) You may not have a starter motor problem at all

[jeremy 68]

What are the symptoms? Many starters are changed due to connection / wiring faults. Also, is the dowel still present to align the starter? If not it's possible both starters have twisted out of alignment with use (no matter how tight the bolts) You may not have a starter motor problem at all

 

100% agree, so when I change a starter motor on a 205 I now put in a new wire direct from the ignition to the soleniod. It may take another 30 mins doing the job, but it is well worth it in the long run.

[welshpug 1,622]

as mentioned, replace the wire from the multiplug under the dash to the solenoid (next to the steering column for P1.5 on)

 

I've done the above and had no problems with my old style large starter.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I had lots of problems of the "clicking" solenoid problem, burnt out wires etc and even sometimes with the replacement 306 diesel starter I fitted. But since fitting a switched relay to the solenoid it's fine and cranks perfectly. 99% sure the wiring is at fault.

[jamiej 0]

Okay, thanks for all your comments,

 

could someone explain fully, what i need to should do, or point in the right direction, i've got a day off tommorow so i can attack it then, with the starter off i can test it cant i.

 

I did test the first "failed" starter out of the car and it was indeed FUBAR. could my wiring be breaking the starters ...

 

anyways. yea, would love some more advice on what to do and how to do it. would be very much appreciated. I did try searching for the "brown multiplug" topics on here and found no end of questions but not many ansswers !!

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[jeremy 68]

You will need

Screw driver

Wire cutters

Crimping tool

Female crimp (I usually buy the sort that has the option of connecting another female connector too. This is so I can re-attach the original one too also).

1 large electrical screx connector. The sort you find on a long strip.

5m of wire the same diameter as the ignition wiring (I use this diameter just for good measure).

 

Crimp the connector onto the wire and feed to the starter motor. Route cable to the grommet in the passengers bulkhead and pull though. This can found just under/behind the passenger glovebox. Rout the wire behind the center counsole and connect to the orage wire shown in my pics. These are the wires found in P1.5 cars and above iirc

 

 

HTH

 

Jeremy

[jamiej 0]

Thats great. thanks a lot for that Jeremy, so i understand by that, that you are essentially providing a direct excitation to the starter, as well as the standard one ?

[jamiej 0]

 

I think i may have un-earthed some cowboy wiring here.

 

I have an immobiliser fitted which is why i assume the direct (orange) link to the starter has been cut ? if i find the live part of this orange wire, it will render the immobilser useless but will allow me to start my car without any problems ? Right ?

 

Can anyone work out what exactly has been done, are these thin black wires a standard part ?

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

[jamiej 0]

in the last picture which shows the orange wire and the 2 black wires, these wires have been twisted and soldered together, so that must be the immobiliser, where (further down the connection) could i have issues, the connection above, although doesnot look pretty covered in tape, its a fairly certain solder and i cant imagine that this is causing the issue, where does this ornage wire go to, before becoming the blue wire going to the starter, could i replace that blue wire ?

[jeremy 68]

I think i may have un-earthed some cowboy wiring here.

 

I have an immobiliser fitted which is why i assume the direct (orange) link to the starter has been cut ? This makes sense if i find the live part of this orange wire this will be from the ignition end ie wher you put your key in so easy to trace , it will render the immobilser useless but will allow me to start my car without any problems ? Right ? normally the breakdown in the wire to the starter soleniod is in the engine bay because a the wire is thinner, and b the wire is open to the elements and the heat from the engine.

 

Can anyone work out what exactly has been done, are these thin black wires a standard part ? These thin black wires are most likely the break in the starter live, and there maybe others connected to some of the other wires just to confuse a would be theif.

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

[jeremy 68]

in the last picture which shows the orange wire and the 2 black wires, these wires have been twisted and soldered together, so that must be the immobiliser, where (further down the connection) could i have issues, the connection above, although doesnot look pretty covered in tape, its a fairly certain solder and i cant imagine that this is causing the issue, this may all be true where does this ornage wire go to, before becoming the blue wire going to the starter, could i replace that blue wire ? TBH I have no ide on the route of the orange cable and where it then turns to a thinner blue one, as never fully traced them as all I essentially do is to piggy back the original

[jeremy 68]

If you still want to keep the imobiliser then that is fine, however I would try and remove all that black tape just be sure that the connections under them are not the cause of your problems.

[SeanO'Connor 0]

Have you thought your immobiliser could be de-funct? When I picked up my 1.6, it had a pug fit alarm immobiliser, that was causing a lot of starting issues, so I simply removed it, all problems are gone now!

[Ethos 0]

What's the best way to connect the wire to the ignition cable? How have you guys done it?

 

Is there any particular type of cable needed for this? Think i'm going to do this tomorrow whilst fitting my new starter.

 

Also I guess it's probably not a bad idea to keep the original in place too so there are two feeds to the starter...

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Something else to check is has youre car got the bracket from the starter to the block,if this has been left off at some point then this can cause premature failiure of the starter motors,it causes it to flex when cranking. Its common for people to leave the bracket off as it can be fiddly to fit.

[Ethos 0]

Bracket?

 

Interesting. Mine is just connected via the 3 long screws into the gearbox.... although I can't see anywhere on the starter other than these 3 holes to put a bracket on.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Ethos

[welshpug 1,622]

you only have the bracket on the 8v blocks afaik.

[lee-bg 0]

Its an option I dont have it on mine either.

No idea why its useful, as starter itself is attached on 3 very strong bolts to the gearbox so no way it could move.

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Its an option I dont have it on mine either.

No idea why its useful, as starter itself is attached on 3 very strong bolts to the gearbox so no way it could move.

 

Its the rear end of the starter that moves,the starter kind of twists. I always think that a manufacturer wont waste money putting a part on if its not needed

[omega 82]

do diesel starters fit?

[Alteran 1]

As the gearbox's are the same then yes, the starter will fit. I've fitted a gearbox from a DTurbo onto my 1.6 Gti as I wanted longer gearing for economy. The Gti starter motor fitted straight on as they're both BE3 boxs'

 

I also had a complete birds nest of an immobiliser fitted under my dash. It was fitted so terribly, to the point where a slight tug would pull the wiring out from the crimped connectors. There was quite a lot of original loom in terms of length so I cut it right back and soldered the loom back to standard. I cut out about 10 inches of loom. Then cable tied it all neatly out of the way. I realised that the car would be more reliable with that monstrosity of an immobiliser removed.

 

I can't see how dodgy wiring like your pictures could be ruining your starters? It could only be giving a low voltage to the exciter which wouldn't in my opinion cause the starter to fail. I agree that mess needs sorting though! As long as there is good battery voltage to the main connection, there is a good engine earth and you get a good 12volts to the exciter when cranked, the problem could only really be a tired 2nd hand starter as you say, or incorrectly fitted (Or bracket missing like previously mentioned)..

 

Hope this helps mate.

 

Regards, Liam.