Gti6 Manifold And Tb On Mi16

[Veero 1]

Right the Mi16 isn't idling very well, a possible cause could be a worn throttle linkage on the TB and with all the TBs floating around being in a similar state it might be time to try something else. Jackherer suggested fitting a GTi6 manifold and TB and I may have sourced one.

 

If so what esle do I need? I assume the 306 TB is a single butterfly so the AFM-->TB pipe won't fit, do I need a custom one?

 

What take offs are there on the GTi6 manifold? I am running a fully standard Mi16 system, so how can I fit the ICV or is there another way?

 

Am I right in thinking the GTi6 uses a MAF sensor, if so does the set up work well with the Mi16 and AFM?

 

I know the TPS needs modification, what do I need to do to it exactly?

 

Is the manifold a direct fit or does it need some dremelling?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Cheers

Veero

[welshpug 1,623]

gti6 doesn't use an air flow meter at all.

 

it has an ICV bolted to the underneath next to the throttle body, a MAP sensor on the top next to the throttle body, and IAT in the side of the T/B. it is indeed a single large round butterfly.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Funnily enough my injector cleaning buddy in town put that to me too when I mentioned about the MI throttle body probs.

Too much hassle really, nowhere for ISCV or oil filler tube to fit in for starters.

 

What would be nice is if an adaptor plate could be made so that any old throttlebody could be added to the MI16 inlet.

[Veero 1]

Hmm sounds like less hassle tracking down a working Mi16 TB tbh.

[Veero 1]

Golf MkII, so would one of these fit: Clicky or Clicky 2 or: Clicky 3

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It's easy to fit, The ICV is a direct fit just like when modding the S16 you just use the Rubber tube to connet it, All the other hole's just blank off, The servo take off is on there too, You'll need a GTi6 or S16 fuel rail too.

The TB is the only arse as you would need to mod the spindle to fit into the TPS.

 

It would be intresting to see how the ECU would cope as the S16 one needs a remap to cope really

[Anthony 1,000]

It would be intresting to see how the ECU would cope as the S16 one needs a remap to cope really

Given that it's AFM based, I'd expect the Mi management to cope just fine with a '6 inlet as it measures the amount of airflow directly, and will hence supply fuel for any extra airflow without issue.

[Veero 1]

Ah maybe not so bad after all. How about the oil filler tower, the gap in the GTi6 manifold doesn't look large enough as the GTi6 has a filler on the rocker cover I guess.

 

So does the GTi6 TB run a TPS at all? (Never had any dealing with '6s so have no idea)

[James_R 3]

In theory you oculd get away with just not connecting the TPS on the Mi loom it will still work, just no fuel cut off.

 

The 6 inlet runs a potenimeter rather than a switch like the Mi set up.

[Ryan 99]

In theory you oculd get away with just not connecting the TPS on the Mi loom it will still work, just no fuel cut off.

 

The Mi16 ECU won't use the ICV to control the idle speed without a TPS. It will idle at 2-3k.

[jackherer 543]

Given that it's AFM based, I'd expect the Mi management to cope just fine with a '6 inlet as it measures the amount of airflow directly, and will hence supply fuel for any extra airflow without issue.

 

I agree, I've not done it myself but I have run a 2.0 S16 on 1.9 Mi16 management with a 1.9 inlet and TB which works just as well as a factory setup. However the throttle body is wearing out now so I am going to put a GTI6 inlet and TB onto an S16 with Mi16 management And it will work fine I'm sure of it

[Veero 1]

Right got the manifold, (cheers Matt!) so it uses the same manifold gasket as the Mi manifold. Is there anything I can do to bodge the oil filler tower in there somehow? Looks pretty tight to me.

 

Also what is the big black plastic thing on the underside of the '6 manifold?

[welshpug 1,623]

its a resonator

[boldy205 74]

No probs Verro, hope it goes well!!

[Veero 1]

So I had a look at fitting the Mi16 TPS to the GTi6 manifold and it does fit, albeit about 35* out. Wouldn't it be easier to make a thin plate to fit the TPS to at a slightly different angle rather than modifying the spindle on the TB?

 

Also there is something that looks like a small verison of the Mi16 ICV, I assume this is the GTi ICV? There is a 3 pin plug coming off the manifold by the TB at about 45*, is that the MAP sensor? And finally there is some gubbins on the underside of the GTi6 TB that looks liek a plug or two and some sort of plastic embedded piping, what are they for and can they just be blocked or is that even necessary?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I would make a little adaptor plate up, The old 8v's have this when fitting decent management to them, The Stepper Motor (ICV) just needs a pplate making for the back of it and bloclking up so you can just use a pipe from your old ICV to this,

Oil Filler I again would make longer to sit on the right hand side of the engine, A 8v Oil filler pipe is quite handy for this.

The TB pipe's can be blocked off yet again, The thicker one is the main breather return thou if you use this,

[Swazy 0 1 Cars]

So I had a look at fitting the Mi16 TPS to the GTi6 manifold and it does fit, albeit about 35* out. Wouldn't it be easier to make a thin plate to fit the TPS to at a slightly different angle rather than modifying the spindle on the TB?

 

Also there is something that looks like a small verison of the Mi16 ICV, I assume this is the GTi ICV? There is a 3 pin plug coming off the manifold by the TB at about 45*, is that the MAP sensor? And finally there is some gubbins on the underside of the GTi6 TB that looks liek a plug or two and some sort of plastic embedded piping, what are they for and can they just be blocked or is that even necessary?

 

This is how i mounted the gti6 on my mi16, But meanwhile i changed tb, i use the gti tb with tb switch from mi16 tb.

To mount the tb from mi16 i did a plate as you can see here!

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2008 by Swazy

[Veero 1]

Nice one Swazy. did you notice any increses in power with teh GTi6 manifold?

[Swazy 0 1 Cars]

Nice one Swazy. did you notice any increses in power with teh GTi6 manifold?

 

Not yet cause it´s not running well and it´s not road legal at least

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Remember that other cars used similar Mi16 TB's, Audi's, VW's and the elusive BMW 318iS.

[Veero 1]

Sod it fitting the manifold tomorrow.

 

On removing the old one I may have found why it wasn't running right. Turned out the manifold gasket was slightly creased and wasn't sealing 100% on number 1 where there was a little bit of oil sitting on the joint. New gasket might have fixed it but I've made a bracket for the Mi16 TPS and just want it fitted.

 

Is it best to remove the dowels from the Mi16 head (if so how? I haven't got a grinder handy) or just sink 2 7mm holes into the GTI-6 manifold? Looks like there's plenty of meat around the area to take 2 small guide holes.

[Veero 1]

Drilled 2 small holes and fitted it all yeserday. Only problems are fitting the ICV and AFM. I extended the oil filler hose and now the filler tower is on the left above the alternator.

 

There is nowhere to mount the ICV bracket that will actually support it, I think I will just leave it supported by it's lower hose, it's not exactly heavy after all.

 

The top hat adaptor and filter are far too long now and won't fit in between the headlamp and washer bottle. Does anyone do a smaller filter? Would that be detrimental to performance in anyway?

 

Oh also the injectors didn't seem to clip into the fuel rail like they did on the Mi rail, the clips don't quite clip in the same way either as the grooves on the injectors look too low now.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Veero

[Super Josh 4]

The S16 engine has a rubber strap that holds the ICV on to the side of the cylinder head. You could always use one of those.

 

 

Josh

[Veero 1]

Right next problem.

 

GTi6 of course doesn't use an AFM. Anyone have any ideas which pipe I can use to bridge the gap between TB and AFM? The Mi16 one is far too big to clamp on the GTi6 TB, plus it means the AFM is pointing at the wing behind the pass side headlamp.

 

Not really wanting to get a custom one made, be a few £££ or hundred I expect.

[Veero 1]

What a stroke of luck! The pipe from an Alfa Romeo 75 fits the TB and AFM perfectly and even leaves it vaguley at the right angle. Only thing is now there's no room for my top hat filter so need a small one.

 

Got it fired up today but it's still not right. Problems:

 

ICV seems to stay wide open so it idles at 3k revs. Unplugging it means it stalls but can be controlled with the throttle pedal.

 

Any ideas why it stays open?

What values should be across the pins on the TPS on shut throttle and wide open?

 

It also seems to misfire every now and again, nothing serious just a tiny hiccup every few seconds. Knackered coil?

 

Starting to lose patience with this, Im this <-----> far from breaking it for parts and getting something not French.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Veero