205 Gti6 Occasionally Cutting Out

[welshpug 1,622]

yeah, not sure when the exact period was for the changeover or whether it makes any difference to the Diagnostic function (I doubt it)

 

but it seems like P1 used 2 pin green plug and P2 on had the OBD shaped plug (non OBD of course, bloody Peugeot, it only has 3 or so pins in there)

[pj838 0]

I read this thread the other day so apologies if its been mentioned already, but after removing the ICV, did you try resetting the ECU afterwards? I removed and cleaned out my ICV which was running ok, some black crap inside it, replaced it and the idle was screwed, kept stalling etc. But after resetting the ECU it was straight back to normal. Might be worth a try

[CaptainK 11]

I read this thread the other day so apologies if its been mentioned already, but after removing the ICV, did you try resetting the ECU afterwards? I removed and cleaned out my ICV which was running ok, some black crap inside it, replaced it and the idle was screwed, kept stalling etc. But after resetting the ECU it was straight back to normal. Might be worth a try

At the same time as fitting the new ICV I also fitted a new battery. Dunno how long I left it unconnected though, so maybe it wasn't long enough? Mmmm....

 

Cold idle is fine and hot idle seem to be fine-ish though. But after about 10 seconds of hot idling then the engine will starting to "struggle" a little bit and if left unrevved will eventually struggle itself out of existence.

[CaptainK 11]

UPDATE:

Car is back from garage now. They checked it over and found that when at operating temperature the fuel mixture is being leaned back too much. This is causing the engine to splutter and lose power. However, without them swapping over various sensors and bits randomly there is nothing they can do.

The garage think the starting problem is indeed either the cam angle or crank angle sensors. The running problem they think is either the fuel pump cutting out (fuel pump works as you can hear it on startup) or the MAP sensor is at fault.

 

So my 205 is going to sit off road for a while whilst I save money for sensors and stuff. Shame I don't have anywhere genuinely "Off Road" so I could SORN it. Doh!

 

Big thanks to "gti-si" for sending me a Crank Angle Sensor. Lets hope that fixes the first problem.

 

And thanks to "WelshPug" for sending me the links to info on how to test the sensors.

Edited July 23, 2008 by CaptainK

[welshpug 1,622]

surely the garage would have access to Autodata and be able to test the sensors? pretty easy with a multimeter!

 

could still be a fuel pump or fuel pump feed problem, my intermittent problem only showed up initially when warm.

[CaptainK 11]

surely the garage would have access to Autodata and be able to test the sensors? pretty easy with a multimeter!

 

could still be a fuel pump or fuel pump feed problem, my intermittent problem only showed up initially when warm.

I had just edited my post to say thanks for that Autodata stuff. I'll be testing them myself when I get time.

 

How did you solve your intermittent problem with fuelling?

[welshpug 1,622]

it was traced down to the fusebox eventually, it hasn't been repaired properly or replaced as its off the road at the moment and I haven't touched it since finally tracing it, only bypassed with an inline fuse

 

oddly it seems to pull far stronger since I did that, so I think there must have been a voltage drop at the pump because it will now pull straight up and headbutt the limiter, not bad for an 8 valver

Edited July 23, 2008 by welshpug

[CaptainK 11]

it was traced down to the fusebox eventually, it hasn't been repaired properly or replaced as its off the road at the moment and I haven't touched it since finally tracing it, only bypassed with an inline fuse

Another thing for me to check then. Which fusebox do you speak of? Mine is a GTi6 now so I don't know what fuseboxes will be in there.

[welshpug 1,622]

the standard fit 205 fusebox in the glovebox, fuse closest to the driver is for the fuel pump.

[gti-si 0]

K, I'll just add my two-pence. I wrote a post on the '6 forum the other day but it dissapeared very quickly, I think they were having server problems. I am putting my money on two problems. I think your starting and running problems are definitely unrelated. I think that your starting issue, which has been apparent since the rebuild, is down to the camshaft sensor. This makes it very difficult to start as has been said a few times, so I think that needs testing or replacing. If your feeling flush:

 

Camshaft sensor

 

Snap that up, or make a good best offer and you could have it home for a good price.

 

I think your problem with the car is going to be MAP sensor or fuel related. Get the garage to test the MAP sensor, take them a print out of the AutoData test rpoceedures then they can't tell you they don't have it on their Autodata. If you don't test a new camshaft sensor, get this tested aswell

 

I think getting them to stick a pressure gauge on your fuel feed to the rail will give a good indication as to whether it's a fuelling fault and shouldn't be much hassle.

 

I've just got you a crankshaft sensor sent off so that will be with you shortly mate

[CaptainK 11]

Camshaft sensor

I've sent that seller an email about that just this morning - and also about the MAP sensor he is sending. Was just wondering if he'd do me a deal on both both at once.

 

Thanks again for the advice and crankshaft sensor. I'll hopefully get there in the end.

 

EDIT: actually as its dirt cheap and a new one costs £80 I thought "Blow it" and bought it anyway. Quite exciting as its the first time I've bought anything off Ebay. Wonder what happens next? *happily losing his Ebay virginity*

Edited July 23, 2008 by CaptainK

[gti-si 0]

Haha, I bought an ICV off the guy three days ago and it's on the car so you shouldn't have any problems

 

You'll be an eSlag before you know it

[CaptainK 11]

You'll be an eSlag before you know it

I got carried away and bought his MAP sensor as well.

 

I have Paypal working now, so if you want anything for the Crank sensor please let me know.

[CaptainK 11]

New MAP sensor installed and the car seemed to start a bit better. Started it and idled it for a bit then turned it off again. Repeated and it was fine for about 3 goes. On the fourth it started popping whilst trying to start again. Haven't driven it yet with the new MAP sensor as haven't had time.

 

I've got a new cam sensor and crank angle now (thanks!) and tried to fit them. The crank angle sensor is under the thermostat unit and difficult to get at, and is held down by an "allen key" style round screw. Can't turn it with my allen key as its too stiff, can't use spanners as its a round screw/bolt and can't really fit any bigger tools in there to get the sensor off. Mmmmm...

 

Likewise the cam sensor is being a pain. It has a proper "spanner" style bolt on it, but alas I can't get a spanner on it. The screw is in the wrong position to get an grip with a spanner and I can't use anything else as there isn't enough space between it and the first injector and the fuel rail. Mmmm....

 

Thankfully there is a tool shop at the end of the road. Gonna try asking them if they have anything specific.

 

Why did Peugeot design it to be so awkward to undo the stuff ????

Edited July 25, 2008 by CaptainK

[guffe 2]

Likewise the cam sensor is being a pain. It has a proper "spanner" style bolt on it, but alas I can't get a spanner on it. The screw is in the wrong position to get an grip with a spanner and I can't use anything else as there isn't enough space between it and the first injector and the fuel rail. Mmmm....

 

Any pics of the place?

[welshpug 1,622]

I guess you haven't got a 1/4 drive socket set? should get at the cam sensor bolt fine with one.

 

Crank sensor can be a PITA to get at, especially with the gti6's usual loom and bracket arrangement, you can replace the bolt with a 10mm headed one if you want.

 

still should be able to undo it with an Allen key, guess you have short ones so add a bit of length to it or use one attached to a 1/4 drive ratchet.

[CaptainK 11]

Yup, got a 1/4 drive socket set. I can get the socket on it, but not the "driver" as there isn't any space between it and the injector next to it. Gonna try and find a thinner driver.

 

I was leaning on the allen key with my weight and no joy on the crank sensor. As you said, more length is needed. So when I find my new "thin" socket driver I'll also make sure its rather long and also look for a "socket allen key" if such a thing exists.

 

Its just unfortunate I've been busy all weekend, and will be for most of this week. So play time will have to resume this coming weekend. Gotta do a test drive with the new MAP sensor sometime as well.

 

Thanks again for the advice, let you know how I get on.

Edited July 29, 2008 by CaptainK

[CaptainK 11]

** UPDATE **

 

Fingers crossed it seems to be better. With the assistance of my new "thinner" 1/4" socket driver I managed to get the Cam sensor and Crank sensor out and replaced. Engine now starts on the button every time I've started it since (about 3 times).

 

Previously I had changed the MAP sensor and reset the battery, BUT not driven or started since I did that. Drove fine on the first test drive with a little "hiccup" (lasted about 1 second) as it was warming up after a mile. This I'm happy with as my FTO does it as well and its only very gentle and not a problem.

 

Second drive was today going to work. "Hiccup" was a little bit longer and then after that the engine was a bit hesitant every now and then under low revs ( less than 3000rpm), but mostly working fine. Under acceleration (after any hiccups) its fine, and under throttle off its fine. But holding a constant throttle makes it "hiccup" slightly. I'm guessing this could be due to a dodgy Throttle Position Sensor? My thinking for this is that my FTO used to do this ages ago and it was down to the "resistance tracks" on the TPS being slightly duff in the low rpm range. After 3000rpm everything seems to run perfectly.

 

Idling seems to fine now as well.

 

My thinking is that its now running, but running a little bit rough. I'll keep my eyes on it, possibly change the TPS, but later on when I have money (VERY skint now!) I'm going to take it to a Rolling Road. But if anyone has any ideas about the "random" hesitations below 3000rpm that would be fab.

 

Will keep you informed, but for now thanks to everyone for all your advice and a special mention to "TaylorsPug" for his Phone Support, and "gti-si" for advice and supplying me with a crank sensor.

[guffe 2]

Sorry for the silly question and hijack, but where is the cam sensor?

[Alastairh 47]

Good to hear your finally getting there!

 

[CaptainK 11]

Sorry for the silly question and hijack, but where is the cam sensor?

On the top of the engine next to the cam cover and directly to the left of the leftmost injector. Its a blue bit of plastic with a connector on it. Take the electrical connector off, undo the 10mm bolt/screw on it and then pull it out. You'll need a small profile 1/4" socket and a thin socket driver - otherwise the leftmost injector gets in the way.

[CaptainK 11]

Good to hear your finally getting there!

I'm not gonna uncross my fingers yet - I've only driven it twice since swapping stuff over. When its been working for a week, then I'll be happy.

[guffe 2]

On the top of the engine next to the cam cover and directly to the left of the leftmost injector. Its a blue bit of plastic with a connector on it. Take the electrical connector off, undo the 10mm bolt/screw on it and then pull it out. You'll need a small profile 1/4" socket and a thin socket driver - otherwise the leftmost injector gets in the way.

 

Ok, thanks. So the GTi6 has some kind of timing bits on its cam pulley? Just curious because the servicebox is showing two different pulleys for GTi6, do they both have the timing bits?

 

Oops, did I go offtopic again...

[CaptainK 11]

Ok, thanks. So the GTi6 has some kind of timing bits on its cam pulley? Just curious because the servicebox is showing two different pulleys for GTi6, do they both have the timing bits?

Way out of my knowledge I'm afraid - all I know is to undo the 10mm bolt and then pull out the old blue thing, put in new blue thing and put bolt back in.

 

Back on topic:

Good news:

The bad starting had definately gone. Done lots of short journeys over last few days, thus involving starting it. Its started on the button every time. Yay!

 

Bad News:

It still has a bit of a problem after driving a mile. Starts to lose power and struggle (and thus you slow down). Then you boot the throttle pedal and after a second or two it clears and its happy for a while. Sometimes happens a few times before it gets the idea. So its back to how it was when this all started. Its driveable at the moment, but if history repeats itself then in a few weeks time it'll be back to misfiring and random throttling after driving a mile.

 

Could it be a dodgy fuel pressure regulator not opening correctly? Or the Throttle Position Sensor giving a dodgy signal, making the ECU think its at idle or a different throttle position? (this happened on my FTO).

 

I should state that the car is absolutely flawless if you only drive it a mile each time - starts perfectly and throttle control and response is beautiful for that 1st mile.