Checking, Changing Lower Arm Joint And Bushes

[jamiej 0]

This afternoon i'm going to be changing my track rod ends as well as inspecting and changing the front lower wishbone bushes.

 

I have bought a bush kit from Peugeot, the car has a slight pull under accel and i have an MOT advisory for the wishbone bushes. So i thought chaing the lot would be good practice.

 

can anyone lend me any hints and tips into doing this job or is it simply a job of taking the wishbones off, removing the old bushes, putting the new ones in and then re assembling ?

 

Many thanks

 

Jamie

 

The car is 205 1.9 GTI

[maturin23 10]

I'd try a search - there's loads of great advice on how to do this.

 

To check them use a pry bar to look for any movement.

 

Removal of 'bones from the car is pretty easy. Removal/fitting of bushes into the wishbone without a hydraulic press isn't!

 

I use a local garage to press the old ones out and new one in. Other people on here have burned/cut them out and drifted the new ones in.

 

When refitting the wishbones it's VITAL to ensure the car is on the ground or the suspension is compressed until the wishbones are parallel with the ground before tightening the wishbone bolts. I forgot, tightened them up with the hub/suspension hanging in mid-air and needed new bushes within a few hundred miles.

 

Seek, and ye shall find

[jamiej 0]

Many Many thanks

 

Jamie !!

[M@tt 77]

i've got a press but tbh they are a bit of a fooker to press out due to the awkward shape of the wishbone and the lip on the bush itself. i think it took me half the time to just burn them out with a plumbing blowtorch and hacksaw through the outer metal surface than it did trying to press them out.

 

If you do have them pressed out i found i had to cut the lip off the bush, bash the lip out the way with a hammer and drift , cut the lip bits off then press it out.

 

I used the press to press the new ones in though

[Ethos 0]

I might be doing my track rod ends tonight / tomorrow. Seems like an easy enough task if they aren't seized. I have free'd one up already.

 

Just measure from the center of the actual ball joint to the end of the nut on the rod to get the tracking roughly as it was before, although you will most likely need the car retracking after.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Ethos

[Super Josh 4]

When I changed mine I just made up a little in situ press using a couple of suitably sized sockets and a length of studding, which I bought from B&Q (10mm I think, whatever is the largest size that will fit through the centre of the bushes), some large washers and quite a few nuts to spread the load over as many threads of the studding as possible to reduce the load on the threads and the possibility of it stripping. I also had a bearing from a Q-Max cutter lying around, so used that to make the nuts easier to turn.

 

I've knocked up a small sketch below. If you imagine putting a socket on either side of the bush you want to remove and threading the bar through both sockets and the bush to make up a little in situ press.

Choose a couple of sockets, so that on one side it is larger than the hole in the wishbone (this is so you can draw the bush into it). On the other side it is the same size as the bush, so that it can put pressure onto the outside metal ring of the bush and 'press' it out through the wishbone into the larger socket on the other side.

 

Then using a few nuts on either side of the sockets, start to wind the smaller socket (and hence the wishbone bush) through the wishbone, into the larger socket on the other side. It will eventually pop out of the other side.

 

In true Haynes style, refitting is a revere of the removing procedure. I usually put a little bit of grease on the new bush, to help it slide in Then tap it in nice and square, before using the mini press to 'draw' it all the way back in.

 

 

 

 

 

HTH Any questions or if I've missed out any details, then just ask

 

Josh

[jamiej 0]

Thats brilliant, thats so much for that, i'll let you know how i get on.

 

Cheers again

 

Jamie

[Masekwm 2]

When refitting the wishbones it's VITAL to ensure the car is on the ground or the suspension is compressed until the wishbones are parallel with the ground before tightening the wishbone bolts. I forgot, tightened them up with the hub/suspension hanging in mid-air and needed new bushes within a few hundred miles.

 

Doh! Never knew that, and I changed my arm a month or so ago!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Josh

 

 

That diagram is the absolute nadgers That's exactly what we need. No need for 'staging' photos as you said you were going to do a while back. Of course I knew that's how you do it anyway, cos I'm clever like ( ), but it's a brilliant aid to anyone else wanting to do it this way, who are less clevererererer than me

 

It sounds so simple, but is it really this easy? I would have thought the bushes might put up quite a fight in some cases, so have you had any great struggles doing it like this? Should I put the order for a holesaw, new drill bits, new hacksaw blades and a butane refill on hold for now and see how I go with this method? I've just ordered the studding nuts and washers from Stagonset so should have them for the weekend.

 

Also, with the bigger socket that you wind the bush into, I noticed that the lip on my bushes covers nearly all of the wishbone casting, so do you cut the lip off first, or just use an even bigger socket that almost slides over the wishbone casting and perhaps locating on the 'shoulder' of the wishbone (I'm sure you can picture what I mean)?

[Masekwm 2]

Doh! Never knew that, and I changed my arm a month or so ago!

 

I'm thinking maybe, my steering noise and vibration whilst turning left could be down to this, because I tightened the lower arm up on the driverside with the car up in the air, it would have screwed up the alignment and as the passenger side arm is right, the drivers side would be incorrect and forcing against it whilst cornering.

 

I'll pop the car up in the air tomorrow and sort that out, and change the droplink whilst I'm at it.

[GLPoomobile 958]

It shouldn't affect 'alignment', it just promotes premature failure of the bush. I think that what happens is if you torque the bush up with the car in the air and the w/b dangling down, and then lower the car back to the ground afterwards, it puts stress on the bush by twisting it and holding it like that.

 

If you didn't get you tracking checked after doing the previous work, then that will go some way to explaining any problems you may have now. ALWAYS get your tracking checked after replacing wishbones, wishbone bushes, track rod ends, track rods etc.

[gti-si 0]

Hmm, I tightened up my wishbones with the subframe of the car. I made sure it was done with the bones parrallel with the subframe. Is this correct or do I need to loosen them, drop the car and re-tighten?

[Super Josh 4]

Josh

 

 

That diagram is the absolute nadgers That's exactly what we need. No need for 'staging' photos as you said you were going to do a while back. Of course I knew that's how you do it anyway, cos I'm clever like ( ), but it's a brilliant aid to anyone else wanting to do it this way, who are less clevererererer than me

 

Why Thank You Sir, you tart I expect to see this fully documented, you have no excuse. New camera and the tools and wishbones for the job.

 

 

It sounds so simple, but is it really this easy? I would have thought the bushes might put up quite a fight in some cases, so have you had any great struggles doing it like this? Should I put the order for a holesaw, new drill bits, new hacksaw blades and a butane refill on hold for now and see how I go with this method? I've just ordered the studding nuts and washers from Stagonset so should have them for the weekend.

 

I suppose it depends on how long the bushes have been in the wishbone for. I tend to clamp the wishbone in a vice that is bolted to a workbench. Then I use a Halfords ratchet spanner to wind the tension up. Once you get the bush moving it comes out nice and easily then. You may need to mess around with various sized washers (I use the large ones with the smallish holes in them, you can usually get a selection from a local motor factors for a few tens of pennies), because you need to adapt the M10 studding so that it won't pull through the 1/2" square hole in the end of the socket).

I would just give this method a go, see how you get on, then you can get nasty with the holesaw and butane

 

Also, with the bigger socket that you wind the bush into, I noticed that the lip on my bushes covers nearly all of the wishbone casting, so do you cut the lip off first, or just use an even bigger socket that almost slides over the wishbone casting and perhaps locating on the 'shoulder' of the wishbone (I'm sure you can picture what I mean)?

 

No don't cut the lip, just us a big Fack Off socket, the bigger the better, within reason, so that you've got clearance for the bush to pop out. Just use a suitebly sized socket that sits nice and square on the casting.

 

 

Josh

[GLPoomobile 958]

My understanding (from reading this type of topic squillions of times now) is you have to torque up the bolts with wishbones sat at the same angle as they would be naturally with the car sat on level ground. In your case Si, if the car was lowered around 40mm, then the 'bones would be about parallel with the s/f. That was certainly the case on the old Eibach springs when I did the bushes on it previously.

 

I hope this is correct, as I plan on doing mine with the subframe off the car (simply because I'm swapping the whole lot) on my 205. It's a bit awkward doing up the bolts with the s/f on the car. This one is not as low so my wishbones should be pointing downwards very slightly, so I'll try and match that angle when I do the bolts up.

[welshpug 1,626]

handy tip, drive the car onto 2 pieces of 4"x2", or even 4"x4" (with the end tapered) makes it so much easier to get underneath to do those bolts

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

Even easier is with the car supported on axle stands, jack the hub end of the wishbone until it just starts to lift the car off the stand & then tighten them up.

 

No wheel in the way & the wishbone is sat at the same angle as it is when on the wheels supporting the weight of the car.

 

Graham.

[jamiej 0]

A magic thread

[GLPoomobile 958]

I've run into a snag with the wishbone bush removal

 

I don't have any sockets big enough to draw the bush into. I got out my biggest 36mm hub nut socket and it looked OK, gave it a go, but the bush was not moving, so stopped what I was doing. When I took the socket off and compared it to the new bushes I realised it was too small so it was sitting just on the lip of the bush, stopping it from moving.

 

The diameter of biggest bush lip is approx 43mm, so I need a socket around 44/45mm. Can you get them this size? Otherwise I'll have to hacksaw the lip off.

 

Josh, what size socket were you using?

Edited July 6, 2008 by GLPoomobile

[jamiej 0]

GLpoomobile, i realised this same problem before i started.

Im going to use an old ball race from a wheel bearing, i have also cut the end off an old exhaust to draw the bush into.

You would need a monster socket i think to draw the bushes into.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Well I still haven't done anything with mine as I just don't have anything suitable to draw the bush into. Even if I had a bit of old pipe, I'm then going to need to find washers big enough to hold the pipe in place. I've got M10 penny washers at the moment which are only about 35mm diameter.

 

Time to PM Superjosh me thinks and see what he did.

[Super Josh 4]

Don't know how I missed this topic, as I always use the 'View New Posts' button

 

Got your PM Steve abd thought that I would reply here.

 

I must have used a fairly large socket then, I have a few large imperial ones in my collection. 43mm seems quite large, are the new OE bushes that size?

 

 

 

Josh

[GLPoomobile 958]

Yep. The bigger of the 2 bushes, it's 43mm across at the lip.

 

Have you got any sockets big enough to clear that?

 

If not, I'm seriously considering buying new Motaquip 'bones rather than piss about. It'd be a shame to just give up though, as I did want to give this method a go and see how easy/hard it is. But I just can't be bothered with the hassle frankly, not when I've got so many other jobs to do.

[GLPoomobile 958]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

 

Why the f*** is it that every time I try a job that has been described on here as being straight forward, it doesn't f***ing work for me? I'm really pissed off right now!

 

I got my 44mm socket the other day, and was genuinely looking forward to succeeding in pressing my bushes out. But as per f***ing usual, I can't do it. I appreciate it must take a LOT of pressure to get the bushes out, but all I'm achieving is bending my studding and there's a lot of creaking and groaning going on, and I'm worried that something is going to give, and I'm going to get a face full of splintered metal.

 

So either this job is not as easy as I thought, or I'm doing something wrong. Probably the latter.

 

This is how I left it

 

Yes, I know the little socket is wonky, but it doesn't matter how I position it, as soon as I wind the pressure on, the studding bends and the socket goes wonky.

 

Neither of the 2 bushes I have tried have budged one bit. I'm really ready to give up now, so I've wasted £25 that I spent on studding, washers, nuts and the 44mm socket. Now I have to either send them off to Tom Fenton who has kindly offered to sort the bushes for me, or see if Rupert Finch can get me some Motaquip wishbones cheap and I'll just sell these ones, my new bushes and balljoint boots on eBay.

 

Another fan-f***ing-tastic waste of time

 

 

(P.S. I'm in no mood to piss about with hacksaws, blowtorchs and chisels etc either. f*** that for a game of laughs )

Edited July 27, 2008 by GLPoomobile

[jackherer 543]

I have used a similar method successfully, I used sockets as drifts but instead of studding and bolts I used a vice to wind them in and out. It took a lot of effort and didn't do the vice much good though. It was a proper solid bench vice in my mates steelworks and I bent the handle on it.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Hmmmm, I can see how a vice would work much better for this. But going by what you've said, I'm clearly not going to win with this method.