2-Pugs 57 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) I took 9 and a half cylinder head bolts out of my 205 last week...which I presume are original, and have distinctive features on them that I presumed were intentionally weak areas to make them stretch during tightening (top photo). However, the new bolts I have just recieved from GSF don't have the waisted section, and their threaded portion is a lot longer. (bottom photo) They are however definitely spec'd for the XU 1.9 engine, amongst others and in every other dimension and respect, are identical. So are these OK to use or should I discard them and get a set from the main dealer? Also, has anyone got any recommendations on tightening? I was planning on torquing them up as per the recommendation on the Puma Racing website, which does away with the 270' tightening (I think he recommends 25lb/ft, slacken, 50, slacken, then 75 or a quarter turn, then recheck after 24 hours). I have read stories of people snapping them on the way in while doing the 270' tighten, and having snapped one on the way out, I certainly don't want another bit of broken bolt in my block I dont use this car much and don't drive it hard so the engine should not be under excessive stress. I figured if the Puma Racing method was good enough for highly tuned engines it should be good enough for me? Edited April 30, 2008 by 2-Pugs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miles 331 1 Cars Posted April 30, 2008 Those bolt's are fine so no worries there, I always do them upto the 300 degress mark but some you feel iffy may be slightly less but when your using a torque wrench the torque varies anyway. Or you can just do them upto 75lb ft of torque which is in the special build manual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Try like this : 1. stage - 30Nm 2. stage - 55Nm 3. stage - loosen each bolt 1/8th turn and retighten back to 55Nm 4. stage - 80Nm 5. stage - 95Nm (70lbf ft) After a few hours go over the bolts one more time - undone each bolt 1/4 turn and tight back to 95Nm ... I'm using this method for some time now and never ever had any problems and it's much pleasant way then horrific 300deg. method .. Rgs ! Damir Edited April 30, 2008 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted April 30, 2008 years ago I was recommended 60 lb/ft in sequence + 90deg in sequence. works for me as 90deg is easily marked in tipex on the head bolt so no home made gauges needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djinuk 2 Posted May 1, 2008 i did it using damir's method and worked for me, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2-Pugs 57 Posted May 1, 2008 Thanks for the replies, and for the tips on tightening, will give Damir's method a try, and great that these new bolts are OK to use Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifcho 0 Posted May 1, 2008 Does somebody now if the bolts across the years are interchangeable? The early GTIs had hexagonal bolts, while the older ones, used a torx head pattern. I guess either type should be fine, but I am in need of some bolts and I'm wondering which type should I order... Also is Peugeot the best place for this, or pattern parts are good enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the replies, and for the tips on tightening, will give Damir's method a try, and great that these new bolts are OK to use Yes as Miles said nothing wrong with those head bolts , various head bolt manufactures have slightly different design of thread areas such as “Erling” which have longer thread on bolts (like on lower picture above) , and “Victor Reinz” have shorter bolt thread and kind of "springy" pattern in the middle of the bolt (same as on the first picture) , so don't worry about that . Regarding torque settings , they are Guy Croft's (race engine builder) recommendations for this type of bolt/engine as i asked him if theres some other method of tightening these Torx M11 head bolts for XU9 engines instead of stressful OE 300deg method and he agreed about that subject and this settings written above are how he does head bolts on Peugeot XU9 GTi/Mi16 engines ... Just oil the bolts (apply copper anti-size or Moly grease on bolt threads and under the bolt heads) , clean throughly threads inside the block prior to refitting the head/bolts and you'll be fine Regards ! Damir Edited May 1, 2008 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted May 1, 2008 Does somebody now if the bolts across the years are interchangeable? The early GTIs had hexagonal bolts, while the older ones, used a torx head pattern. I guess either type should be fine, but I am in need of some bolts and I'm wondering which type should I order... Also is Peugeot the best place for this, or pattern parts are good enough? Well i dunno if you can use Hexagon bolts instead of Torx ones but for the peace of mind i would buy (always) new head bolts and proper ones , Torx or Hexagon type which ever they've been on the head before as standard type . No need for OE Peugeot bolts i'm using aftermarket "Erling" or "Victor Reinz" head bolts , they are quality aftermarket brand specialised for gaskets seals sealants and head bolts Rgs ! Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HERMAN 33 Posted May 2, 2008 (edited) Just oil the bolts (apply copper anti-size or Moly grease on bolt threads and under the bolt heads) , clean throughly threads inside the block prior to refitting the head/bolts and you'll be fine Regards ! Damir On aero engines we are told not use copper/anti seize on threads because it gives you a false torque as the threads are over lubricated. We are usualy given a dry thread torque figure and wet (engine oiled) torque figure. Do you use anti-seize and oil on threads? or just oil the threads and anti-seize the abutment face of the bolt??? The reason I ask is I will be building my engine soon and the work shop manual does not mention oiling the threads which seems odd to me? Edited May 2, 2008 by HERMAN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2-Pugs 57 Posted May 4, 2008 (edited) Try like this : 1. stage - 30Nm 2. stage - 55Nm 3. stage - loosen each bolt 1/8th turn and retighten back to 55Nm 4. stage - 80Nm 5. stage - 95Nm (70lbf ft) After a few hours go over the bolts one more time - undone each bolt 1/4 turn and tight back to 95Nm ... I'm using this method for some time now and never ever had any problems and it's much pleasant way then horrific 300deg. method .. Rgs ! Damir OK, one last question, as I am hoping to fit the head back on today/tommorow. How exactly do I tighten the 10 bolts? There is the Haynes procedure which reads along the lines of Tighten a bolt, then immediatley loosen it and then tighten it to the next torque. Then move on to the next one Before I actually read that, I would have asssumed something like Tighten all 10 to the first torque (in sequence), then loosen them all (in sequence), then tighten them all to the next torque (in sequence)...etc What's the recommended way then? Does it even matter!? Rob Edited May 4, 2008 by 2-Pugs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted May 4, 2008 (edited) Like this : 1 stage - start tightening the bolts up to 30Nm , always one by one in sequence (start from the middle and move outwards - from bolt No1 to the bolt No10 ..) 2 stage - next tight up to 55Nm , again start to tight from the bolt No1 and move outwards to the bolt No10 3 stage - now , loosen each bolt 1/8th turn in reverse order of tightening sequence , so start loosening from the last bolt , bolt No10 and move inwards to the bolt No1 , when you've finish with loosening the last one , bolt No1 , start tightening as you've done above set the torque wrench to 55Nm and tight back each bolt starting from bolt No1 and outwards to the bolt No10 (so first undone all bolts in reverse order of the tightening sequence by 1/8 turn and then , when you've loosen them all , tight back to 55Nm bolt by bolt starting form the bolt No1 and proceed further to the bolt No10 !) 4 stage - torque each bolt up to 80Nm in the same order - from the center , from the bolt No1 to the bolt No10 5 stage - torque each bolt up to 95Nm as above - from the center outwards When you've finish with last 5 stage wait a few hours and then loosen all bolts (one by one) by 1/4 turn in reverse order of the tightening sequence (as you've done in 3 stage ..) from bolt No 10 to the bolt No1 and when you've loosen them all , torque them back from bolt No1 to the bolt No10 to the 95Nm in outward direction/sequence . (you can do this last sequence/settle if you wish but it's not essential , you decide ) In between the 3-4 and 4-5 stages make a short pause (a few min , 2-3min. ..) , and print the head bolt tightening sequence on a piece of paper so that you can place it in front of you when you tight the bolts , just in case that you don't make a mistake/mix up the bolt tightening order when tightening them from bolt No1 up to bolt No10 Oil/grease the bolt threads and area beneath the bolt heads with moly grease , copper grease or even engine oil if you like , and always go nice and slow with the tightening - take your time don't rush , nice and easy and you'll be fine Ok ? (and don't forget to refit the big spacer and double washers on the bolt No.8 !! the bolt above the water pump) Damir Head bolt tightening sequence/order : Edited May 4, 2008 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
