How Can I Get My Handbrake To Work

[jerseypug 1]

started off by replacing the disks and pads and fluid, then the cables then i replaced all the seals and covers on the calipers, then i fitted a hydrolic handbrake and rear compensator, i then fitted yellod stuff ebc pads and i have just converted the hydrolic handbrake to a vertical one and i can only just get the rears to lock up in the wet. the original cable handbrake just about stops the car from rolling down a hill but thats about it. i have had other 205 1.9s that have better standard handbrakes than my hydrolic one. any ideas what to do next?

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Assuming the calipers are not seized I'd first of all try a standard pad, and then try working the brakes fairly hard to try and bed the rear pad into the discs properly. I've had it a few times when replacing rear discs and pads that the handbrake is crap afterwards, a few hundred miles of use with the odd heavy stop and it improves no end.

[Craigb 2]

where in the line is the compensator fitted

[d-9 0]

Have you checked that the calipers are sliding freely? Pull the pads out, make sure the caliper mounting bolts are torqued up and check that the caliper moves as it should. Are you sure the uprated pads will get up to temperature when fitted to the back?

 

It should be possible to lock the wheels at 30mph in the dry with the standard handbrake if everything is working properly. You need newish handbrake cables, clean brake discs and newish pads. Get the car out on a straight road at about 30 and drive along yanking the handbrake as hard as you can, on-off-on-off etc. After a few miles you should have bedded the pads in ok.

 

Try that and if it locks up ok, then the hydralics is at fault, if not, then its something with the rear pads/discs/calipers.

[Rob Thomson 6]

I don't think a hydraulic handbrake helps much on a Pug because the pistons in the rear calipers are tiny. So you don't get any greater mechanical advantage with hydraulics than you do with the cables. The hydraulics might give you greater consistency than cables, but not necessarily more power. This isn't like proper hydraulic handbrakes on Escorts etc that use calipers with much bigger pistons (generally intended for use on the FRONT of the donor car).

 

I've always found the standard handbrake to be sufficient, but you have to be an animal and initiate the manoeuver at 40mph to get it to go round unless everything's in tip-top condition.

[paul_portsmouth 3]

i have this problem too mine is poop in a waterlogged car park i couldnt get the rear to lock up at all

[welshpug 1,622]

anyone tried BX calipers? should imagine these have bigger pistons.

[jackherer 543]

anyone tried BX calipers? should imagine these have bigger pistons.

 

The handbrake is on the wrong end and the seals are only compatible with LHM.

[welshpug 1,622]

what I mean is use BX fronts on the back and fit new seals

[Rippthrough 98]

Or just use a smaller piston size for the hydraulic handbrake master cylinder

Edited March 14, 2008 by Rippthrough

[Rob Thomson 6]

what I mean is use BX fronts on the back and fit new seals

Yep, but first find the new seals... Re-sealing the handbrake part's easy cos it's likely to be the same as the standard GTi rears, but I think the pistons are 50mm and when I've looked I have't been able to find anything in that size.

 

Or just use a smaller piston size for the hydraulic handbrake master cylinder

Yep, but first find a smaller MC. Most hydraulic kits come with 0.625" cylinders which is the smallest you can find of that fitment. Sure, you could have some custom-made but is that easier than re-sealing some old BX calipers...?

[Rippthrough 98]

I've got 10 half inch ones sat on the shelf......

 

Failing that just shift the pivot...

Edited March 14, 2008 by Rippthrough

[Rob Thomson 6]

I've got 10 half inch ones sat on the shelf......

Really? Ok....

[d-9 0]

How about run big discs on the back using 266mm front discs on the back, space out the caliper and use the pad carrier off 1.6 front brakes. As seen here:

 

http://www.309ownersclub.com/Community/vie...=a&start=18

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

that has been previously done by Hilgie and B1ack_Mi16 .

[jerseypug 1]

How about run big discs on the back using 266mm front discs on the back, space out the caliper and use the pad carrier off 1.6 front brakes. As seen here:

 

http://www.309ownersclub.com/Community/vie...=a&start=18

 

 

 

this looks like a plan but i would have to keep a mechanical handbrake to keep it legal. i could possibly do as above and then fit the standard rear calipers also.

otherwise i have seen the metal backing plate from the pads drilled with a cable running to the handbrake which is not ideal but should keep it legal and i allways keep it in gear when it is parked.

[Craigb 2]

Before you go to all the effort of changing discs and calipers etc , are the ones on your beam working well?

 

I went through a whole series of development on my handbrake , and its somehwere on a thread on here, but the trail was like this , with a couple of rallies in between each step.

 

Fit new plain discs ( mud was getting in the grooves of the previous discs)

Fit standard rear pads ( these would work better from cold)

Adjust the bias so that the rears are doing more work ( get some heat in them )

Fit Carbon mettalic pads ( this has had the most effect with the rear bias , as the std cable handbrake works better than ever )

 

I can now lock up the rears if required from 40 ish on a stage

[d-9 0]

That setup shown above does keep the mechanical handbrake, as it retains the original rear calipers.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

^ just with 1.6 front pads carrier .

[jerseypug 1]

the rear calipers on mine at the moment struggle with road tyres on so when i use sticky dunlops on hot tarmac, hairpin bends turn into 3 point turns and i am loosing loads of time.

on the rear beam i have fitted a 1.6 front caliper with a 1.9 rear disk and drilled the pads for the handbrake cable to compress the pads. This will be left loose and just there to make it legal as it is a stage rally car. i tried a s16 disk which had the correct offset but the caliper would not fit as the disk diameter is too wide. i would rather not use brackets or spacers if i can get away with it and the s16 disks would be heavier and i dont see the need for such large disks on the rear.

the only problem i can see is that the 1.6 calipers usually have 20mm disks and are now using 8mm disks. the piston will be further out than normal. there is still plenty of piston in the caliper but i would rather it was not out so much.

i will try a 1.6 front disk when i can find one (i know i have one somewhere) and hopefully the offset might be the same. i tried the 1.9 front disks but they hit the caliper mounting plate.

Edited March 16, 2008 by jerseypug

[SPGTi 2]

My vertical hydraulic handbrake works fine and will lock the wheels up easily.

 

You mentioned compensators in the first post. If you have left these in the handbrake won't work.

Set up should be

 

line into Bias valve

line out of bias valve into rear of handbrake m/c

line out of front of handbrake m/c to rear, splitting into 2 lines for rear calipers.

 

I have the cheapest motor factor discs, std calipers but Pagid Blue pads. The bias valve is set with nearly max bias to the rear.

 

Sorry if I am telling you the obvious but usually it is the simplest mistakes that take the time to remedy.

 

Steve

[jerseypug 1]

My vertical hydraulic handbrake works fine and will lock the wheels up easily.

 

You mentioned compensators in the first post. If you have left these in the handbrake won't work.

Set up should be

 

line into Bias valve

line out of bias valve into rear of handbrake m/c

line out of front of handbrake m/c to rear, splitting into 2 lines for rear calipers.

 

I have the cheapest motor factor discs, std calipers but Pagid Blue pads. The bias valve is set with nearly max bias to the rear.

 

Sorry if I am telling you the obvious but usually it is the simplest mistakes that take the time to remedy.

 

Steve

 

thanks for the advice but that is how the system is set up, the bias is set so that the rears do not lock up before the fronts unless it is raining. i went out again in it last night in the dry and the hydraulic handbrake is slightly better than the mechanical one.

i drove an impretza rally car the other day and with slicks on and the hydraulic handbrake worked a treat and this is how i want mine to work. wouldnt mind if my engine went as well as the impretza also.

what length is your vertical lever? mine is an old handbrake turned around and i think it might be too short

[welshpug 1,622]

My vertical hydraulic handbrake works fine and will lock the wheels up easily.

 

You mentioned compensators in the first post. If you have left these in the handbrake won't work.

Set up should be

 

line into Bias valve

line out of bias valve into rear of handbrake m/c

line out of front of handbrake m/c to rear, splitting into 2 lines for rear calipers.

 

I have the cheapest motor factor discs, std calipers but Pagid Blue pads. The bias valve is set with nearly max bias to the rear.

 

Sorry if I am telling you the obvious but usually it is the simplest mistakes that take the time to remedy.

 

Steve

 

Steve, how does that make the car behave under braking? i.e do the rears lock up before the fronts under heavy braking?

[SPGTi 2]

Steve, how does that make the car behave under braking? i.e do the rears lock up before the fronts under heavy braking?

 

It behaves well under braking. I run Carbon Lorraine pads at the front which work really well. My navigator noticed straight away when I changed to these pads. At MOT time the braking force split is "normal" around 65%- 70% front 35% -30%rear.

 

 

Steve