Is This Madness All Truth...

[Guest blueice]

Just wondering what degree of truth there is in the below comment:

 

The problems that this lack of stiffer torsion bars create is that like a lot of front wheel drive cars and especially French cars, the rear suspension is set too high and too soft as standard. When you lower and stiffen the front this unbalanced situation is made worse. Sadly, many suppliers of these kits and supported by articles in motor magazines say the answer is to lower the rear suspension to make the car level again by just turning the torsion bars around on their splines. This is definitely not a solution but merely way of getting around a problem that hopefully not too many people understand the reason why it is not a proper fix. The reason it is not a fix is that to make the cars sit lower you have to take tension off the bar, which exactly the opposite of what is necessary. Yes, it will lower the suspension to get it looking good and level with the front but that's all. If you put on some lowered uprated front springs you will make the handling worse unless you can fit uprated rear torsion bars. If you are more concerned with appearance then this modification is OK but if improved handling is required it is definitely not.

 

Surely handling would be improved - well I hope it would, I've just bought some new springs and dampers, I'm not that worried about looks but more about handling. Somone, please restore my confidence in aftermarket suspension kits and lowering before lose hope in having a better handling car!

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

It is technically true.

 

When you lower the front with lowerng springs, the springs tend to be uprated (ie firmer). When you lower the back end you just reset the same torsion bar lower so the car sits lower but is the same firmness. Another problem from this is that the suspension needs some travel to overcome the initial softness of t he torsion bars which is why the ride can be awful as it hits the bumpstops easily. The way to overcome this is to cut the bumpstops down a little and fit uprated shock abosrobers.

[Guest blueice]

Yeah I see what you mean.

 

If you put on some lowered uprated front springs you will make the handling worse unless you can fit uprated rear torsion bars

 

Shouldn't that be "uprated rear torsion bars or uprated shocks"

Else my handling is about to get a whole lot worse

 

An uprated torsion bar sounds expensive

[Ahl 4]

True. But you can get the whole rear axle off of a scrapped gti pretty cheaply. (I assume your 205 is non-gti?)

 

Is that article from GMC galloway motorsport? I think it's mostly aimed at citreon AX's which come with s*it, s*it s*it rear suspension as standard.

[Guest blueice]

Yep non GTi - If I did get a GTi axel then I would have the advantage of the anti-roll bar wouldn't I? Might be well worth it, as it is there is no anti-roll

 

The other option would be to drop some 309 suspension off, although I beleive this would make the wheels stick out more and with my arches that aint an option

 

Ahl it is indeed from the galloway motorsport site. Yup aimed at AX's. My car has seriously sh*t suspension, really I don't see that an AX could be any worse.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Yeah I see what you mean.

 

 

 

Shouldn't that be "uprated rear torsion bars or uprated shocks"

Else my handling is about to get a whole lot worse

 

An uprated torsion bar sounds expensive

Uprated torsion bars only because the front is uprated too but they are pricey. Uprated shock absorbers help a lot.

 

A rear anti roll bar will make a big difference.

[Ahl 4]

Seems to me like your best option is to get the whole suspension off a gti.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

If you are looking at uprating the rear axle to stop the rubbing that you posted in a different topic, you might be wasting your time because your arches are not as flared as the GTi arches so with a couple of passengers in the car you'll still get contact between the tyres and the body IMO.

 

I think that article on the GMC site applies to all cars with the same rear suspension layout as the AX (ie205, 309 etc)

 

The 309 beam with 1900 alloys probably won't fit under the arches on your car.

 

Graham.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

It is true, even on GTis if you stiffen and lower the front suspension you should do the same at the rear, not just lower it and maintain the same stiffness. However, as stated it is expensive to do so most people don't bother and GTi rear suspension isn't exactly soft to start with!

 

Rob

[Guest blueice]

If you are looking at uprating the rear axle to stop the rubbing that you posted in a different topic, you might be wasting your time because your arches are not as flared as the GTi arches so with a couple of passengers in the car you'll still get contact between the tyres and the body IMO.

I would like the GTi rear suspension simply to improve the handling, I now realise its unlikely to help with the scraping

 

I dont know what I can I do to stop the scraping, other than downgrading the wheels/tyres

Could grind it off a bit but I dont think it would make much difference tbh...

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I would like the GTi rear suspension simply to improve the handling, I now realise its unlikely to help with the scraping

 

I dont know what I can I do to stop the scraping, other than downgrading the wheels/tyres

Could grind it off a bit but I dont think it would make much difference tbh...

If the scraping is due to going down bumps then uprated shock absorbers (Ie Koni adjustables) may help to stop it. They stopped mine banging on the bump stops when I first lowered it.

 

Just adding an anti-roll bar more or less brings it to the same as a GTi rear suspension, the torsion bars are more or less the same.

[Deadliest Pug 0]

You could get the arches professionally rolled.

 

If you intend to keep the car for a long time then that would be the best bet.

 

Dave!

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

  205 -7239 Grp-N - 205 20mm torsion bars (pair) - NB Torsion bars not for early 205 prior to chassis

Code: 7239

Price: £270.00 (EURO-450.00)

Quantity in Basket: none

 

                     

 

 

 

 

  205 -7253 Grp-N - 205 21mm torsion bars (pair) - NB Torsion bars not for early 205 prior to chassis

Code: 7253

Price: £270.00 (EURO-450.00)

Quantity in Basket: none

 

                     

 

 

 

 

  205 -7246 Grp-N - 205 23mm torsion bars (pair) - NB Torsion bars not for early 205 prior to chassis

Code: 7246

Price: £270.00 (EURO-450.00)

Quantity in Basket: none 

 

a lot of money for what is essentially a pair of springs!!!

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

And those 21mm torsion bars *may* be on g-reg on 205 vans.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

And those 21mm torsion bars  *may* be on g-reg on 205 vans.

Boy how hard am I searching my local breakers for a phase 2 van.

 

Even if it's just to check the size.

 

Of course if they are 21mm I'll be buying it straight away.

 

Graham.

Edited June 14, 2003 by pugtorque

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

i once heard that if you bought your peugeot 205 from new, fitted with a towbar you automatically got uprated torsion bars . is this true?

[Guest kermit]

Which models where fitted with rear anti-roll bars? I'm just wondering whether my XS ('87 XY8) has one or not.

 

 

wbr

kermit

[Guest madaxgt]

anyone verified the 21mm torsion bars on 205van yet???

 

im going to a scrappy this week with a set of verniers. will let you all find out if i find any ive been told theyve got a few