Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 Hello people just got a 1.6 gti which i think has the 1.9 engine in it (yellow injectors, and alloy spacer, oil cooler) don't know the history of the car really been sat in my mates garage for 2 years as a bad debut, the problem is when i start it up runs on 2 cyl at the most so did the usaul thing check dizzy cap had the plugs out (covered in petrol) and layed them on the engine, cranked it over and seams to be a very good spark, so i cleaned them up and tryed again, same again, removed them, and soaking with fuel again, had the injetors out just to make sure nothing was missing or damaged all ok, the only problem i can see is the afm (flap ok shut) has had the black plastic top off it and silconed back on, i'm just off down there to do some tests on it from the manual, has anybody had the same fault, i have read about the coolant temp sender would that make it so bad ? any ideas plz help i will also try and identify the ecu etc to make sure it's not a miss match thanks Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted November 8, 2007 Hi ! Yes it could be ECU temperature sensor it can cause massive over fueling if its faulty , but also the AFM ... If you have 1.9 engine in 1.6 car then you must have matched - the ECU , dizzy and AFM from this 1.9 engine because it will go bad on 1.6 ECU and 1.6 AFM or the 1.9 ECU and 1.6 AFM , 1.6 dizzy etc. , and yes it will over fuel also because of this sensor/ignition component mismatch - the 1.6 ECU also gives a bit richer mixture .. Check the numbers on the ECU and AFM .. and you must have yellow injectors on that 1.9 engine ... and 1.9 dizzy also .. Regards Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 Hi ! Yes it could be ECU temperature sensor it can cause massive over fueling if its faulty , but also the AFM ... If you have 1.9 engine in 1.6 car then you must have matched - the ECU , dizzy and AFM from this 1.9 engine because it will go bad on 1.6 ECU and 1.6 AFM or the 1.9 ECU and 1.6 AFM , 1.6 dizzy etc. , and yes it will over fuel also because of this sensor/ignition component mismatch - the 1.6 ECU also gives a bit richer mixture .. Check the numbers on the ECU and AFM .. and you must have yellow injectors on that 1.9 engine ... and 1.9 dizzy also .. Regards Damir Thank you just got back got a bit mre info the car was running fine then it started playing up, while i was down there i looked at the sas which was fully closed and very carboned up so i think i'll have to get one of them as well, the bloke who sold it to the other lad was suposed to be a 205 expert (psml) i can only get down when i have time of work (next thursday) so will order the sas and coolant sensor and hopefully will be up and running lol thanks again Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 Hi ! Yes it could be ECU temperature sensor it can cause massive over fueling if its faulty , but also the AFM ... If you have 1.9 engine in 1.6 car then you must have matched - the ECU , dizzy and AFM from this 1.9 engine because it will go bad on 1.6 ECU and 1.6 AFM or the 1.9 ECU and 1.6 AFM , 1.6 dizzy etc. , and yes it will over fuel also because of this sensor/ignition component mismatch - the 1.6 ECU also gives a bit richer mixture .. Check the numbers on the ECU and AFM .. and you must have yellow injectors on that 1.9 engine ... and 1.9 dizzy also .. Regards Damir P.s. it does have the yellow injectors in and checked vac pipes all ok no leaks thanks Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted November 8, 2007 Hello ! Ok. but check and write back here the numbers which you have stamped on the - ECU , AFM and dizzy The easiest part is that you try with new coolant temp. sensor its cheap and easy for remove/install .. but you must have 1.9 ECU , 1.9 AFM and 1.9 dizzy if you have 1.9 engine in 1.6 car ... I've had same problem - i purchase 1.6 car with 1.9 engine inside and all the engine management was left from the previous 1.6 engine .. and yes it was running but like a bag of s***t have fun ! Regards Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 Hello ! Ok. but check and write back here the numbers which you have stamped on the - ECU , AFM and dizzy The easiest part is that you try with new coolant temp. sensor its cheap and easy for remove/install .. but you must have 1.9 ECU , 1.9 AFM and 1.9 dizzy if you have 1.9 engine in 1.6 car ... I've had same problem - i purchase 1.6 car with 1.9 engine inside and all the engine management was left from the previous 1.6 engine .. and yes it was running but like a bag of s***t have fun ! Regards Damir will have plenty of fun when its running lol thanks i will check them Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted November 8, 2007 will have plenty of fun when its running lol thanks i will check them Stu Sure the ht leads are in the right order? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 Sure the ht leads are in the right order? thats a good point will check them too i'm only going on what i have been told it was running fine then started to get worse on tick over untill it got really bad ie not ticking over, the bloke who had it said it run ok on the road when driving and he basically just abanded it and not been touched since 2 years ago thanks Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardy18 33 1 Cars Posted November 8, 2007 why are there so many crackin Gti's just left to rot, i have now managed to get hold of 2 now because people have lost interest for pointless reasons one i got for free cause the bloke lost keys, 20 quid later and i had a full lock set of a mate, a few hours later i had a fully serviced mint bodies strong pug for nout and this is now my race pug, another was recently, got for 60 quid cause it was surplus to requirements and needed a bit of work im shocked Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted November 9, 2007 Yes , true well me thinks that this is because people often don't know what kind of car is this 205 GTi and i can bet that they didn't feel this cars on the proper way how good they handle , how good throttle response they have etc.etc. , most of people are just ordinary consumerists they buy cars for traveling from spot A - to - B they like a lots of shiny new technology electric flashing things inside and outside of the car ... and car isn't any joy for them and this 205 GTI is just that - pure joy fun car which will make you smile each and every day when you go for a spin on twisty up hill road , if you know how to drive it .. have to love it and know to use it i'm really not bothered if eventually something breaks or something doesn't work or because the spare parts are a bit expensive. - this car is fantastic little machine i wouldn't give it away for a 10 BMW-s Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 9, 2007 Yes , true well me thinks that this is because people often don't know what kind of car is this 205 GTi and i can bet that they didn't feel this cars on the proper way how good they handle , how good throttle response they have etc.etc. , most of people are just ordinary consumerists they buy cars for traveling from spot A - to - B they like a lots of shiny new technology electric flashing things inside and outside of the car ... and car isn't any joy for them and this 205 GTI is just that - pure joy fun car which will make you smile each and every day when you go for a spin on twisty up hill road , if you know how to drive it .. have to love it and know to use it i'm really not bothered if eventually something breaks or something doesn't work or because the spare parts are a bit expensive. - this car is fantastic little machine i wouldn't give it away for a 10 BMW-s Damir Let them just dump them, gives us cheap cars and mine is such good condition underneath due to been left a good clean up and underseal and it will last another 17 years to change the subject i nipped out of work early to get down to my mates before his garage shut and got all the numbers if you can be so kind to check for me Dizzy Bosch JGFU4 C019D013 0237009063 Ign Bosch MTR010227100123 ECU Bosch 0280000359 AFM Bosch 0280202109 all in good con except AFM has had the black cover with the number on it off and siliconed back on . Thanks yet again STU Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted November 9, 2007 (edited) Hello ! It's all fine except : Dizzy Bosch JGFU4 C019D013 0237009063 This is 1.6 dizzy it has different advance curve .. you need - 0237009066 dizzy for this 1.9 engine .. but any way that should not be the problem for not starting and overfueling of the engine Try playing with the dizzy - advance a little bit and then try to start the engine ... how does the AFM flap feels ? is it tense or very loosen ? open up the black cover and look at the black carbon track if it's maybe damaged (if it's damaged you will see white spots or white scratches on the black carbon whipper track ..) ... try to tight the spring tension of the AFM (if it's very loosen .. or loose a little bit if it fells too tight ..) but mark the original position first so that you can adjust it back where it was if you get lost !! also check the mixture screw on the AFM (allen screw) turn it fully inside and then out - count 7 to 8 turns and stop (this screw is for the fuel mixture at idle it is usually set-up 7-8 turns from fully inside on almost all 1.9 Jetronic AFM-s that i have ..) Tried with new ECU coolant temp. sensor ? Did you check if it has sparks on all 4 spark plugs ? and are you sure that someone hasn't play with leads - mix them other way around ? Edited November 9, 2007 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 9, 2007 Hello ! It's all fine except : Dizzy Bosch JGFU4 C019D013 0237009063 This is 1.6 dizzy it has different advance curve .. you need - 0237009066 dizzy for this 1.9 engine .. but any way that should not be the problem for not starting and overfueling of the engine Try playing with the dizzy - advance a little bit and then try to start the engine ... how does the AFM flap feels ? is it tense or very loosen ? open up the black cover and look at the black carbon track if it's maybe damaged (if it's damaged you will see white spots or white scratches on the black carbon whipper track ..) ... try to tight the spring tension of the AFM (if it's very loosen .. or loose a little bit if it fells too tight ..) but mark the original position first so that you can adjust it back where it was if you get lost !! also check the mixture screw on the AFM (allen screw) turn it fully inside and then out - count 7 to 8 turns and stop (this screw is for the fuel mixture at idle it is usually set-up 7-8 turns from fully inside on almost all 1.9 Jetronic AFM-s that i have ..) Tried with new ECU coolant temp. sensor ? Did you check if it has sparks on all 4 spark plugs ? and are you sure that someone hasn't play with leads - mix them other way around ? Got the AFM here just opened it up and it is spotless, the tension seams fine snaps shut plus smooth operation, when i was messing with when trying to start it i wound it all the way in and it was 3 turns out so i removed it and checked it wasn;t damaged, then wound it back in till it started to grip on the threads and tryed starting it like that only just started but plugs got soaking wet again and missing, i did remove all the spark plugs and laid them on the engine and all seamed to be a strong spark, i think the thing to do is like you said check the lead order, will have to find out where they should be positioned and going to get a new Blue temp sensor maybe sas too and look for a dizzy on ebay (as i will be doing a mi16 swap next year) and try that next thursday when i'm down again, Thank you very much again Stu p.s. none related to this problem but rebuilding rear 1.9 beam off it, wheres the best place to get the swing arm bearings and seals etc plus one shaft (took an hour to get it out with heat) from gen pug ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted November 9, 2007 Just a quick thought, how old is the fuel? and is there a chance there was moisture in the tank after sitting for a couple of years? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 11, 2007 Just a quick thought, how old is the fuel? and is there a chance there was moisture in the tank after sitting for a couple of years? i did put some new petrol in (optimax) little can as i had that problem with one of my race bikes just after 6 months, managed to get a dizzy of ebay tenna all in cap and all the number you said screw in cap (got to be worth it lol) will be ordering other stuff and going down on thursdy so watch this space lol thank you again (copyed that bit as write it a lot) Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardy18 33 1 Cars Posted November 11, 2007 sorry to jump in on the thread but a mate of mine is havin similar issues and wondered if anyone has any ideas he fitted the engine a year ago and it was running perfectly but then has just been left since then by the bloke he sold it to, he has now been given the car again to get it goin but isnt havin any luck at all when they first moved it it was running on 2 or 3 cylinders only but now it wont start at all he has changed the coil, plugs, leads, injectors but still no joy he said the engine struggles to turn over when tryin to start even thou its gettin full battery via a booster so its not down to lack of voltage either, when the plugs are out its turns over without a problem its got a good spark on each plug and plenty of fuel is getting throu so there is no reason why it shouldnt start in my eyes ANY IDEAS would be greatly appreciated as he's about to give up and dump it many thanx simon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 327 Posted November 11, 2007 Try to - jump start him (if it gets fuel and sparks on all cylinders it must fire up ) ... when i was buying my 205 it was also 2-3 years locked inside the garage by the previous owner and i could not start him - i bought new battery new leads new spark plugs new dizzy rotor and dizzy cap and i still could not start him .. eventually I've asked my mate to help me to push/jump-start the car and it started shortly after (i know this is not so good solution as because the timing belt can break , or slip one tooth .. but i didn't have this problem with this or any other car that I've jump started before .. you can try if you like ..) Damir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardy18 33 1 Cars Posted November 12, 2007 not a bad idea, i might give it a go if all else fails will check all elec terminals aswel i think jus to make the starter is gettin the right connections like u said fuel and spark equal fire so it should run!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu71 0 5 Cars Posted November 12, 2007 Try to - jump start him (if it gets fuel and sparks on all cylinders it must fire up ) ... when i was buying my 205 it was also 2-3 years locked inside the garage by the previous owner and i could not start him - i bought new battery new leads new spark plugs new dizzy rotor and dizzy cap and i still could not start him .. eventually I've asked my mate to help me to push/jump-start the car and it started shortly after (i know this is not so good solution as because the timing belt can break , or slip one tooth .. but i didn't have this problem with this or any other car that I've jump started before .. you can try if you like ..) Damir sorry to be a pain i ordered the temp sensor today and they sent a black one looks like the one on the s.a.d but i think i need the blue one am i right i need the blue one ? thanks Stu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
