8v Xu9ja Std Compression Turbo

[veloce200 3]

thought i'd update the forum for the long overdue turbo 205. there is an update here on the website

 

"For the initial sprint the car was not rolling roaded - it was operated with no dump valve, no intercooler and no bleed valve. At just 0.38 bar it should be achieving around 170hp and 170lb torque. The performance figures so far (drag strip will confirm in future) are 0-60 sub 6 and 30-70 around 4 seconds. The car is very quick and by keeping standard compression there is no lag with quick spool from 1500rpm."

 

it really does drive well. now plans more grip then bio-ethanol and more boost. probably on the standard engine as it shows what can be achieved with simple mods on standard transmission/clutch/road tyres/standard wheels.

[Mandic 0]

Which turbo do You run?

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[veloce200 3]

Which turbo do You run?

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

 

it's a GT2560 (oe on SRD20DET) and also I think Ford Focus RS. roller bearing good for 330 hp. I thought it might have a little more lag in remote mounting but it spools up like a modern turbo car mainly due to high gas speed on 1.9 engine on std compression with std exhaust. with remote mount you use std system as a big bore exhaust would slow spool. also though another key benefit is it has the OE manifold and cam. Compared to the iron block 150hp turbo it is so different you wouldn't believe they were the same engine.

[James_R 3]

pictures say a thousand words sounds good

[pdd144c 0]

Looking good Julian, you at Brands this weekend?

[veloce200 3]

Looking good Julian, you at Brands this weekend?

will hopefully looks like the nipper will be in tow - 8 mths and he's loving internal combustion. everyone thinks i want to get him into it - NO - just Dad can race - it's too expensive !

Edited October 31, 2007 by veloce200

[Batfink 201]

so where does the turbo actually sit?

[Batfink 201]

oh! and do you think that the high compression stops you getting the lag associated with running the turbo further away from the exhaust ports.

Have you wrapped the exhaust to keep the exhaust temps as high as possible

And whats your inlet air temp as you are not running an intercooler

 

This setup sounds pretty cool!

[veloce200 3]

oh! and do you think that the high compression stops you getting the lag associated with running the turbo further away from the exhaust ports.

Have you wrapped the exhaust to keep the exhaust temps as high as possible

And whats your inlet air temp as you are not running an intercooler

 

This setup sounds pretty cool!

 

40 degrees was highest inlet temp I saw normally about 10-20 above ambient - ally pipe has about 50% intercooler efficiency and of course flow is good without the intercooler. no i have not wrapped exhaust nor do I intend to at this stage just enjoying driving her again after months off the road (and track!)

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Sounds nice & interesting.

 

Good power for a standard based engine.

 

Graham.

[veloce200 3]

Sounds nice & interesting.

 

Good power for a standard based engine.

 

Graham.

 

thanks. next year the aim will be 240hp then we'll see how the std engine gets on!

[veloce200 3]

at the risk of getting flamed i can't understand why anyone would use the iron block engine. the 1.9 engine comes alive with a touch of boost and is "authentic" even with boost....

[Kev-G 1]

pictures say a thousand words sounds good

 

Yep - Pics??

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

so you have mounted the turbo under the car or was that just the initial plan?

 

how does the oil return function (do you have an electric oil pump)?

 

should have started with XU9JAZ engine (or pistons) as it gives you a little more "breathing space" .

 

keep up the good work!

[Baz 421]

Sounds very interesting! Pics definitely needed!

[veloce200 3]

Sounds very interesting! Pics definitely needed!

 

pics on the page there is a link to in the first post then on that page a link to another site with video

[DamirGTI 325]

Hi !

 

Nice one !

So you didn't lower the CR of this XU9ja (D6B) engine at any point ?! no internal engine modifications - pistons , head gasket etc. ?

 

On how much pressure are you running this turbo ?

 

Cheers !

Damir

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

so you have mounted the turbo under the car or was that just the initial plan?

 

how does the oil return function (do you have an electric oil pump)?

 

?

[veloce200 3]

so you have mounted the turbo under the car or was that just the initial plan?

 

how does the oil return function (do you have an electric oil pump)?

 

?

 

yes under the car at the back. electric return pump - rather noisy and that along with exhaust noise is the only downside at present. it would be interesting to see how it did against an mi16 on a 1/4 mile. Without having rolling roaded, or tuned much beyond best estimates with plugs and tailpipes i don't know the power but the guess is 167hp (.38bar on top of atmospheric with 121hp base output). However the weight added is minimum. In fact in improving the cooling system i saved weight there and also saved the weight of the rear silencer. also saved weight as at this boost level an intercooler is not required. in addition this means better flow without the intercooler restriction. also the pipe runs are pretty smooth and also you can hear the boost inside the pipework in the car - a new and unusual noise! Ideally you wouldn't run inside the car on a road car but for this application it made most sense from a performance perspective (fewer turns).

 

i genuinely believe having owned both a few conventional older lower compression manifold turbos that this solution is better. For the same reasons that turbos are often mounted away from sump level on piston engine planes (less heat soak, more reliability ) I think it can work on cars. of course it's not a replacement or necessarily better it's an alternative though.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

the first time i've seen a turbo mounted under the car or even at the back was at some american car.

 

good to see it done on a pug, as we were thinking of doing something like that on the front Mi32's engine .

 

the only downside (in your case and use) is very long boost hose length!

 

you can't just multiply 121 bhp with 1.38 though...

 

what AFR and EGT does it output?

[Kev-G 1]

pics on the page there is a link to in the first post then on that page a link to another site with video

 

Need MUCH clearer than those....

[veloce200 3]

you can't just multiply 121 bhp with 1.38 though...

 

 

it's only an estimate and theoretically it's correct - surely theory is a good starting point. I expect when rolling roaded the output is very close to 170hp.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

0.38 bars is just a level of added pressure over the atmospheric pressure.

 

it doesn't really show what's the dynamic compression level increase in the combustion area,

due to increased air you're forcing in it and will greately depend on the turbocharger used.

 

different turbos will pump different amount of air/oxygen into the engine at the same level of

boost and charge will also have different temperature, therefore totally varying power increase.

 

but in your case with standard C/R and a relatively "standard sized" turbo, i guess you could

assume something like 30-35% increase, depending on aggresiveness and quality of mapping.

 

performance definately looks improved in your video ... is that a 1.9 gearbox btw?

 

i know improvements of 0.4-0.5 bars on just the rear engine of 205 Mi32 were VERY noticable.

[veloce200 3]

0.38 bars is just a level of added pressure over the atmospheric pressure.

 

it doesn't really show what's the dynamic compression level increase in the combustion area,

due to increased air you're forcing in it and will greately depend on the turbocharger used.

 

different turbos will pump different amount of air/oxygen into the engine at the same level of

boost and charge will also have different temperature, therefore totally varying power increase.

 

but in your case with standard C/R and a relatively "standard sized" turbo, i guess you could

assume something like 30-35% increase, depending on aggresiveness and quality of mapping.

 

performance definately looks improved in your video ... is that a 1.9 gearbox btw?

 

i know improvements of 0.4-0.5 bars on just the rear engine of 205 Mi32 were VERY noticable.

 

yes 1.9 box. the ratios are bang on for turbo. the map is quite simply the atmo map with figures for boost plus a bit more for safety. could be miles out and where it a costly engine I wouldn't take the risks I am taking !

[snillet 1]

different turbos will pump different amount of air/oxygen into the engine at the same level of

boost and charge will also have different temperature, therefore totally varying power increase.

 

I´m not shure if that is correct....

 

If the same engine is tested with 2 different turbos, and they both at a given RPM provide the same pressurelevel in the plenum, that would mean that the same volume of media(in this case air) is flowing through the system into the engine.

 

If it´s not like that something is seriously wrong with my knowledge of the affinitylaws and how pumps and fans are working in piping systems, and my knowledge shouldn´t be wrong there cause i work daily with dimensioning stuff like that.

 

But i think i understand what you mean though, although you might have explained it a bit strange.

 

I don´t mean to be offensive or anything like that, just curious about what you meant