8v Blocks - Increased Cc

[Sandy 189]

I'm in the process of building an Alloy blocked 1.8 8v for hillclimb, I might do a blog on it later when somethings's actually happened!

 

Using the diesel iron block is within the rules. When they say original to that model, they mean 205, not GTI specifically etc.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

When they say original to that model, they mean 205, not GTI specifically

 

i hadnt thought about this

 

i must admit i would like to go into the bigger 1801cc and over class and really turn some heads with the little pug

 

is this case are there any other blocks which accomodate larger liners than 83.5mm without sacrifin reliability or is the next step up the XU10?!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

i hadnt thought about this

 

i must admit i would like to go into the bigger 1801cc and over class and really turn some heads with the little pug

 

is this case are there any other blocks which accomodate larger liners than 83.5mm without sacrifin reliability or is the next step up the XU10?!

 

I thought the point was using a cast iron XU9 diesel block.

If they are the same as the XU10's they can be bored to 88mm. Also you could try to get a 98mm crank from Denmark as they seem to have quite some of those cranks over there, and make it a 2384cc

[Batfink 201]

certainly look at what you are up against in either category. You only will turn heads if your car is competitive.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

i have no idea what the cast iron diesel XU9 block looks like, sorry bein slightly naive to all this as im still learnin which different blocks there are and tryin not to get confused with them all

 

ill look more into the iron XU9 and see what i come up with

 

somethin good better come out of all this research and Q&A;s thats for sure

[Sandy 189]

There are two types of Diesel block, one has cross cuts between the bores and can't be bored as much as the solid deck one. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in which is used either, it's a lottery.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

There are two types of Diesel block, one has cross cuts between the bores and can't be bored as much as the solid deck one. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in which is used either, it's a lottery.

 

You mean the crossdrilling between the bores here, like a 1,5-2mm hole like one the XU10's or is this "cross cuts" you talk about something else?

This crossdrilling have always looked a little dodgy to me on the xu10's too when boring out to 88mm.

[Sandy 189]

The XU10 cross drilling is dodgy with large bore, that's all I'm going to say about that, I'm not at liberty to say how we've dealt with it, sorry.

 

The cross cuts are a different matter and are obvious when you see the deck of such a block.

[Guest Eurotrash]

At risk of sounding a bit silly is it possible to use a 1.9 gti crankshaft in a 1.6 engine as i thought that the only real difference was the piston stroke so if you change the Crankshaft and a few other bits but it's my understanding its aslong as it looks right from the outside it's ok. if you are ale to do this that would allow you to drop into the below 1800cc group but still keep a 1900cc capacity as the engine would still look like a 1.6 so am i chatting rubbish??

[Sandy 189]

That would be cheating! Checking the stroke is quite easy if you're protested and it's not in the spirit of the game to run undeclared capacity.

[welshpug 1,622]

you could just use an XUD7 block with a gti head on it surely? stay in the below 1800 class then.

 

I'm not sure how close to the XUD9 the 7 is in looks, but its an iron block....

[Guest Eurotrash]

fair enough i read thought that aslong as the casing to the engine is ok it falls into the lower group i better go read through the reg's again so you reckon the best why to increase over the 1600 capacity is to use the diesel block but isn't this alot heavier which is usually the enemy in good old hillclimb of course i could well and truly be off track now is there anyway of boreing the 1600 out to 1800 or because its a wet lined engine is this totally out of the question??? what is the limitation of these XU lumps????

 

Sorry to ask silly questions but if you dont ask you dont get

 

Thanks

Allan

[welshpug 1,622]

I may be waaay off the mark here, but 1600 TU?......

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

really not sure what im going to do yet, all i know is that next year i will be running as follows:

 

1900 8v XU9 D6B

Std Head to match (maybe a little porting of casting marks etc)

Catcam Rally Camshaft

Vernier Pulley

Double Valve Springs

Good head Skim

45 DCOE Webers

Alloy Flywhweel

1900 Gearbox with MI16 CWP to suit my Hillclimb

 

Thats really all my budget can push to then will save up during the year for a BV Head from either Puma Racing/Longmans or Shenpar (not decided yet) and hopefully Miles can come throu with a machined 8v block for me to which i can add 2ltr Pistons or more, if not ill have to stick with as big as i can go in the standard XU9 block and fit 83.3mm to take her to 1928cc

 

So just one last question to clear it up for me, there is no other block in the 205 range that i can fit any bigger liners and pistons in than 83.5mm, if there is i can pose the question to the club that because its a standard block fitted to a 205 (not GTi specific) that it still complies with the regulations as stated in the blue book "The engine block must be externally identifiable as that fitted to the original model or specified option and it must remain in the same capacity class as the original car"

[Sandy 189]

This is all getting a bit confused with different capacities being discussed!

 

To summarise, using a 205 within the rules for speed events:

 

Up to 1800cc class: Alloy GTi block using 1.8 crank/rods/pistons (1761cc or 1780cc with 0.5mm overbore)

 

Up to 2000cc class: Alloy GTi block using 1.9 or Mi16 1.9 crank/rods/pistons (1905cc or 1927cc with 0.5mm overbore, 85mm liners can be used, but not always reliable)

 

Up to 2000cc class option2: Diesel iron block using 1.9 or 2.0 crank and whatever bore to make 1998cc etc

 

1800 to 2600cc class etc: Diesel iron block using whatever crank and pistons you can to achieve the capacity and geometry you want.

[Sandy 189]

So just one last question to clear it up for me, there is no other block in the 205 range that i can fit any bigger liners and pistons in than 83.5mm, if there is i can pose the question to the club that because its a standard block fitted to a 205 (not GTi specific) that it still complies with the regulations as stated in the blue book "The engine block must be externally identifiable as that fitted to the original model or specified option and it must remain in the same capacity class as the original car"

 

84, 85 or 86mm liners have been used in the regular GTi block, but with varying reliability.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

1800 to 2600cc class etc: Diesel iron block using whatever crank and pistons you can to achieve the capacity and geometry you want.

 

Thanx for the info sandy, a great help

 

Whats the maximum you would be able to get from this Diesel block and using what crank and pistons?! i assume this is the 205 Diesel block?!

 

thanx again

simon

[Sandy 189]

87mm is the practical maximum bore with most examples, perhaps a well chosen casting will take 88mm, but it's risky. The 88mm cranks are easily used (87x88mm= 2092cc), but as has been mentioned before, 92 and 96mm cranks can obtained relatively simply and cheaply (2187cc and 2282cc respectively).

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok so i just need to find out what my restrictions are within the class, ie:

 

1) Can i fit another block which is fitted standard to any 205 or does it have to be GTi specific (XU9)

 

2) Am i allowed to increase the CC in the first place

 

Ill get back you when i have found these out as you seem extremely knowledgable and i certainly arn't in this case and would like to get an engine spec together so i can get a shopping list goin

 

thanx again mate, speak soon

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

EXCELLENT

 

after tryin for a week to speak to the right guy at the MSA i have manage to get a top result, he said i am able to fit any block from a the 205 range to my Hillclimb pug and increase the CC as much as i want within the Capacity Class and as im in the 1801cc and over class its unlimited for me!!

 

ive just got to right to him to get it in written confirmation so if any scruiteneers tell me otherwise i have proof from the top people!!

 

so my options are wide open

 

so any ideas on what would be most suited for hillclimb, i assume the Diesel 205 block is my base but i have no idea what cranks and rods/pistons/liners to go for?!

 

please advise

 

regards

 

a very chuffed simon

[Sandy 189]

87mm bore with 92mm TD crank would be my choice. I know it works!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

thanx for the info mate but you'll need to a be a little more in depth with, sorry im useless and still learnin!!

 

so is this usin the 205 Diesel block?!

 

Obviously the 87m pistons and liners will be after market but where do i source the 92 TD crank from?!

 

what cc will this take it to and what sort of BHP/Torque can i expect?!

[Sandy 189]

Diesel solid deck block and aftermarket pistons.

 

92mm crank from 2.1 turbo diesel.

 

2187cc, power and torque depends entirely on spec.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok thats great, so i just need to look out for a 205 Diesel Iron block,

 

what is the 92mm 2.1 TD crank taken from?!

 

are these parts hard to come by, do you know anyone who may have such items?!

 

many thanx for your help

 

simon