Another (!) Cutting / Stalling & Won't Start

[Guest jpward99]

Hi,

 

Yes a newbie, but have sat for endless hours searching the forum the past few weeks trying to solve this one!

 

Bear with me..

 

The car: 1991 1.9 GTI, standard except for K&N kit, 77k miles. Just bought her last month. Excellent condition, lots of money spent by previous owner.

 

The problem: Car hasn't been used regular for past few years, done a few hundred miles per year and kept in a carcoon otherwise by previous owner - so was expecting a few niggily problems at the start as I am now running it every day.

 

Driving along one day at steady 60 on motorway, 3000rpm ish, engine starts cutting out and coming back on again. Rev counter dropping, car jerking, even though still in gear and doing 60. Done this 3 or 4 times in quick succesion and then drove on ok for a mile or two then died completely. Wouldn't start for approx 5 minutes then started again no problem and drove ok.

 

Done a bit of reading on forum, initially thought it was fuel, and bought a new Tachy relay. Next day the car done the same thing.

 

Done a bit more reading on forum and realised it is probably ignition (as the rev counting was dropping to zero even though the engine was still doing 3000rpm approx). Got the car to die again while in my garage and checked spark, no spark at plugs, and no spark going to distributor from coil (king lead). Therefore I think that rules out dizzy. Also pulled the plugs out, they are very clean, not sooted and not overfuelling. So I replaced the coil and ignition module with new units. Also checked all associated wiring and terminals (incl brown multiplug connector, dizzy fly lead etc etc). No joy - still doing the same thing.

 

Car normally does this while warm, but has done it once or twice while just below normal temp. Seems to go fine while cold.

 

Car done the same tonight, so while it was dead and not starting I got my dad to tow me. I let the clutch out in second & third gear at 30 ish and no movement on rev counter (wouldn't start either). Towed it home and 10 minuted later it started again no problem!

 

What is next to check? My initial thoughts are crank sensor? Would this cause this? I have checked the general condition of the wiring to it and it is fine. What about ECU? I am struggling to find anyone online selling new crank sensors - any ideas?

 

Oh, she had had a new AFM & dizzy not that long ago (receipts came with car).

 

Any help appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

John

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Its unlikely your car has a crank sensor unless it has a cat fitted.

 

It could be the ignition amp thats over heating or the hall sensor lead that runs from the ignition amp to the side of the dizzy which plugs in about 12" from the dizzy body which can cause these symptoms.

 

Graham.

[Guest jpward99]

Its unlikely your car has a crank sensor unless it has a cat fitted.

 

It could be the ignition amp thats over heating or the hall sensor lead that runs from the ignition amp to the side of the dizzy which plugs in about 12" from the dizzy body which can cause these symptoms.

 

Graham.

 

 

 

Thanks Graham,

 

Ignition amp brand new two weeks ago, and plenty of conductive paste applied so shouldn't be an issue.

 

Easiest way to check hall sensor lead? I have had a look at the pins at both ends and they seem ok. Can I do a multimeter check or anything? It looks like a bit of a pain to remove from the main conduit to check wire condition or is that what is required?

 

Thanks,

 

John

[Guest jpward99]

Ok,

 

In the meantime I started her up in the garage, let it warm up and revved a bit until she died again and wouldn't start (was ravving ok and then revved up to just over 5000rpm and it instantly died).

 

I snipped the 3 wires coming from the dizzy (hall sensor) just after the connector into the loom, and then snipped the same 3 just as they enter the block connector at the amp. Connected up 3 new wires, tried again and still won't start. The green and red wires looked not too bad when i snipped, whereas the one with the white sleeve looked dodgy. Either way this seems to confirm that there is no problem with the wiring from the dizzy to the amp. (Although i'm letting it cool down to see if it will start again with my new wiring in place). If it does that will 100% confirm that this wiring is not what is giving the intermittant fault.

 

 

Any more ideas? I'll let you know if starts again once cold.

 

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Guest jpward99]

Left it for 30 mins and started again no problem with my revised wiring in place.

 

That rules out the hall sensor wiring, unless the problem is right in the block connectors/pins, or in the short 12" section that goes into the dizzy (but that's pretty new).

 

Any more ideas? Help please!

[Pob 1]

Left it for 30 mins and started again no problem with my revised wiring in place.

 

That rules out the hall sensor wiring, unless the problem is right in the block connectors/pins, or in the short 12" section that goes into the dizzy (but that's pretty new).

 

Any more ideas? Help please!

 

Have you checked the three earths on the gearbox near the bulk head. After doing a clutch changed one was missed, It drove fine with an occasional miss then it cut out completely due to the loose earth wire. Could be a dodgy earth on one of those cables

 

Dan

[Guest jpward99]

Have you checked the three earths on the gearbox near the bulk head. After doing a clutch changed one was missed, It drove fine with an occasional miss then it cut out completely due to the loose earth wire. Could be a dodgy earth on one of those cables

 

Dan

 

Thanks Dan,

 

All sems fine I'm afraid, so not that. I really don't suspect it to be dodgy wiring as the car will die once warm even when sitting in my garage (I can just leave it ticking over on it's own and once it warms up it dies and won't start). I would suspect a loose or damaged wire to make it cut when driving, eg flexing when going over a bump or something.

 

Can the hall sensor cause this by failing when warm? Is it worth changing the dizzy? Where is best to get a new dizzy - I have seen places asking for £200 exch - is this right??

 

What is the complete feed for the rev counter? The rev counter definately is dead when she is refusing to start. I have fitted a brand new coil, ignition amp & ruled out the wiring from the dizzy fly lead to the amp. What else can stop the live to the dizzy and/or rev counter?

 

Please help as I'm now having to get taxi's to work and back as I don't trust it any more!

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

John

[Guest jpward99]

Any ideas guys?

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Any ideas guys?

 

Your problem, although an 8v seems identicle to mine:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=80878

 

It also hadn't been run for a while (about 1-2 years)

 

Its starting to really annoy me now

[Guest jpward99]

Your problem, although an 8v seems identicle to mine:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=80878

 

It also hadn't been run for a while (about 1-2 years)

 

Its starting to really annoy me now

 

Yea, I have been keeping an eye on your thread with interest, getting fed up having to get taxi's to work.

 

 

Tonite I picked up a 2nd hand known good ECU (I'm really clutching at straws now), started the 205 up and let her heat up in the garage. Noticed an interesting thing - I kept the revs steady at 3500 for a while then noticed the rev counter dropping to 1000 and back up to 3500 constantly, yet no change in the actually engine speed (when I've notice it doing this in the past its usually when I'm driving and it does dramatically cut the engine revs too)....

 

So what would cause that? Rev meter dropping and all over the place while the engine is at a steady 3500? Of course a few minutes later it done it's party piece of cutting alltogether and not starting (at this point I swifty swapped ECUs but to no avail - another part ruled out...)

 

 

Help!

[Doof 11]

I had a very similar problem and i dont actually know how it got fixed in the end. I could have sworn it was when i had the alternator replaced. I wouldn't have expected that because the battery gives the juice to the plugs etc no the alternator directly. Other than that i'm sure i only changed the ignition amp and battery itself.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Fella, have you tried a compression test yet. I just wonder if you have bad compression on one cylinder too and that could be the link between our two cars?

 

I got some injectors and a regulator off a chap on here so i'll try those tonight or tomorrow and update

[DamirGTI 327]

Hi !

 

I've had similar problem before and it was the ignition amplifier - was overheating because the thermal transfer paste at the back of the amp. was dried out ...

 

The car started and run fine from stone cold , but just after 5min. when the engine was reaching operating temp. first it started with strong misfire/cutting out , and few seconds after the engine was completely shut off ... then I've had to wait 10-15min. for the amp. to cool down and after cooling i was able to start the engine again .. but shortly after this scenario repeats over and over ..

 

Try to re-apply first the thermal transfer paste at the back of the amp. surface , if this doesn't helps then try with some good known spare ignition amp. ....

Try with some spare coil also as because I've found that most of this cutting out - misfire problems which start when the engine reach operating temp. is ignition related -> ignition amplifier and coil as they always mess things up when they gets hot - overheat ..

 

best luck , hope this helps

 

Cheers !

Damir

[Guest jpward99]

Resolved!!

 

Swapped out the dizzy on Sat morning for a second hand one I picked up. Fixed! No more cutting out etc and fixed my problem where it wouldnt rev cleanly over 5k rpm. Took it for a good long drive up the coast on Sunday with no probs too.

 

 

Thanks for your help!