Electric Power Steering - Pressure?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Okay, the lack of the search function is killing this forum

 

The answer is, I'm sure, out there somewhere - I am retro-fitting Saxo power steering onto the Pug and I was about to order the custom high-pressure hose. I think I've figured the fittings - 3/8 and 1/4 BSP ends - but I can't for the life of me find anything that tells me what the working pressure of the system is, so that I can get appropriately rated hose.

 

Anyone know what pressure the HP circuit runs at?

 

Cheers guys'n'gals,

Dan

[welshpug 1,626]

hard to say as it varies dependent on load (that and i've never seen any actual figures stated) I'd let the supplier of the hose spec if for you.

[tom_m 0]

i just asked the guy at pirtek for a pipe suitable for the power steering and he did the rest. no problems so far think its rated to something ridiculous like 1000 bar

 

oh and i gave him the hose ends from the pump and the rack (cos i had them both) and he braised them onto the pipe

Edited October 22, 2007 by tom_m

[welshpug 1,626]

yep, exactly what I meant.

 

though Pirtek are quite expensive, the service and expertise cant be faulted.

[Powers 13]

Sounds good, I hope you dont mind me asking but how much did that lot set you back?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Good suggestion, although I'll give Norton a go in Birmingham - Pirtek do seem to be a bit on the steep side. I'll try and nip up in the week with the old hose and fittings and see what they can do for me. I'm glad I asked though - 1000 bar, cripes :-o !

 

Thanks guys

[tom_m 0]

Sounds good, I hope you dont mind me asking but how much did that lot set you back?

 

1.5 meters of pipe plus the fittings and labour came to £60; more than the pump cost me It does sound steep, but for the quality and piece of mind I'm more then happy

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Ok, further to this, Norton were completely bloody useless and basically didn't want to know (which is annoying as earlier in the year another chap had said they'd be able to help, no problem). I bounced around various places in Birmingham and it became evident that the fittings used on the power steering rack on the 205 (and the Saxo pump) are not BSP fittings - the thread is very similar but one hydraulics bloke said it wasn't a true BSP hydraulic fitting so he'd have nothing to put on the end of the hose.

 

Does anyone know the precise thread and fitting types, if they are a standard at all?

 

This would be the low and high pressure inlets on the 205 rack, and the high pressure outlet on the Saxo pump (which appears to be the same as the larger one on the rack).

 

They seem to be very similar to BSP fittings but, so I'm told, not *exactly*. One looks 1/4" and the other 3/8ths maybe?

 

Tom, do you maybe have the order you put with Pirtek still, that you can refer to (although I'm guessing he just did what he needed with the fittings you gave him - but maybe he noted down what they were)?

Edited October 24, 2007 by brumster

[Ryan 99]

If you download the catalogue from http://www.thinkauto.com/ there is a page near the end with some thread identification drawings.

 

Being french it's probably some obscure metric thread.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Thanks, Ryan - bloody useful page, that!

[Chris H 10]

The fittings are all metric, i think they are m14x1.5 and m16x1.5 but i havent got the bits to hand.

 

I have my system done all in goodrich pipe with correct adaptors and if i'd paid for it all, it would have cost me loads and i'd say the £60 from pirtec was a pretty good price.

 

I'm thinking of making a std instalation kit for a 205 gti to use the saxo pump....but is there a market for it?

[easypug 0]

Thanks, Ryan - bloody useful page, that!

 

Did you have any joy in the end as this is on my list of things to do.

 

Dave

[tom_m 0]

think its rated to something ridiculous like 1000 bar

 

i checked, its only 100 bar BTW, but thats still 1450psi!

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Just as an update on this...

 

I did eventually get the hoses sorted out, but the only way to do it properly is to get the high pressure hose ends from the 205 and Saxo (rack and pump end accordingly) and get them spliced together at a hydraulics place. I can thoroughly recommend Norton Hydraulics in Birmingham, who did it 'for a few quid' rather than the £60-odd you apparently get charged at Pirtek.

 

The low-pressure rack fitting on a 205 *is* a thread-compatible fitting for the pump output on the Saxo pump but the mating surface isn't the same and there's potential for cracking the pump housing. Likewise the metric<->BSP adapters you can get out there don't technically seat the same so you're wandering off into unchartered waters if you go that route.

 

So I would give up on the custom hose route (trying to get one made up that's compatible at each end) and just get one spliced up from some spares off a scrappy.

[Guest rallycoops]

Useful thread as I am in the process of retro fitting PAS with Saxo pump to my 1.9.

 

Big question from me is where do people typically locate the pump? I recall seeing one installed in the co-drivers footwell but is that normal (car is for stage rallying).

 

Any help much appreciated, I have searched the forums and found one useful site but it's all in German!!

 

Cheers

 

Al.

[tom_m 0]

mine is here, and the battery is in the boot. been wondering whether to try and fit it under the front chassis leg in front of the gear box, but for now this works

 

 

hth

Edited December 29, 2007 by tom_m

[Guest rallycoops]

Thanks Tom, much appreciated.

 

My battery is also in the boot, I appear to have a slightly different pump from you as the filler bottle is on a flexible pipe. I don't have the original fitting bracket as it was an eBay purchase, what did you use?

 

Nice looking car by the way!

 

Cheers,

Al.

[tom_m 0]

Thanks Tom, much appreciated.

 

My battery is also in the boot, I appear to have a slightly different pump from you as the filler bottle is on a flexible pipe. I don't have the original fitting bracket as it was an eBay purchase, what did you use?

 

Nice looking car by the way!

 

Cheers,

Al.

 

ta

 

i got all the original brackets (the shiny black bit opposite end to the reservoir) but bugger all wiring its mounted in a hefty rubber donut to dampen any vibrations. i rotated the existing bracket and chopped a little off it for clearance and it sits quite happily on the battery tray.

 

if you check the main website i think there is a guide for using the remote reservoir version and placing it where i mentioned previously, but i think that uses the original brackets too.

 

tom

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

It is possible to fit it down behind the gearbox on the chassis leg/bulkhead but obviously it's a bit awkward to get in there unless you're engine is out, and I was also concerned about maintenance should I need to replace it, so I played safe and got the bracket welded on top of the gearbox mount/battery tray (as with Tom, the battery is in the boot anyway). Make sure you tack it on without restricting access to the gearbox mount bolt, otherwise swapping the box out in a hurry will be fun !

 

There are indeed 2 pump styles - one with integrated reservoir and one with external. They need fusing and relaying with suitable wiring up to ~70a but it's the start-up that apparently draws the most peak current.

[tom_m 0]

There are indeed 2 pump styles - one with integrated reservoir and one with external. They need fusing and relaying with suitable wiring up to ~70a but it's the start-up that apparently draws the most peak current.

 

hmm thats interesting that you say 70A, looking at the 106 wiring diagrams they only use a 30A fuse to protect the circuits and i've been through several fuses so far. only seems to happen under high use/load, shunting around to get the car into a space for example. can't seem to pin down why. i keep meaning to get a multi meter on it to see what kind of current its actually drawing, but haven;t got round to it yet.

[Super Josh 4]

i keep meaning to get a multi meter on it to see what kind of current its actually drawing, but haven;t got round to it yet.

 

You'll need a hefty multimeter to measure 70A I've got a current clamp type one that will measure a fair old current draw that you are welcome to borrow.

 

 

 

Josh

[tom_m 0]

You'll need a hefty multimeter to measure 70A I've got a current clamp type one that will measure a fair old current draw that you are welcome to borrow.

Josh

 

thanks josh, didn't think about that things are on hold for now tho... i've got 7 stitches in my right index finger after a slight boo boo today