S16 Engine - What Should I Do Next?

[s16 Peggy 0]

My S16 currently has fitted a GTI-6 inlet manifold, air filter kit, decat pipe and Magnex exhaust.

 

It seems to be making decent power, but at Cadwell it was obviously underpowered compared with some of the other cars out there. The handling was spot on, but it just needs a bit more ooomph!!

 

I havnt got a fortune to spend, so a fullly reworked head and throttle bodies are out of my budget, so I was wondering what my options are?

 

I was thinking of getting some cams and possibly getting the ECU remapped, but I dont want to do that if the gains will be minimal.

 

The other option is to spend some money on a second hand V6 engine and work over the winter to get that into the car.

 

Interested in your comments please...

 

Cheers

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

v6 is not a good choice for track, far too much weight over the front end IMO. How about a 6 head and management, or speak to sandy about the TB set up colin satchel is doing for a very reasonable sum. Also gti6 exhaust manifold. Not sure if gti6 cams would work in a standard s16 setup or even fit the head. Cams would see an increase but without mappable maagemnt I dont see the point TBH, it seems a false economy buying milder cams.

[s16 Peggy 0]

Thanks for the reply.

 

One option I was thinking about was just getting my hands on a GTI-6 lump and ECU. There are loads more bits available for the GTI-6 so that would make it a more cost effective route.

 

I have been thinking about Bike Throttle bodies as they seem a reasonable option, with a mappable ECU and some fairly hairy cams too. I am not looking for mad power, but something in excess of 180BHP would be a step in the right direction.

[Alastairh 47]

Personally id be tempted to put a GTI6 exhaust mani on to see the effect, and try one of PeterT's cams

 

Whats your suspension spec? Maybe try some bigger Anti roll bars/torsion bars?

Edited July 21, 2007 by Alastairh

[s16 Peggy 0]

Cams are definetly on the cards, but the GTI-6 mainfold will not fit as the stud pattern is completly different to the S16 one.

 

I am running GAZ coilovers, and the suspension is more than good at the moment

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The GTi6 exhaust manifold isn't a direct fit due to the port spacing and ports being different shapes and sizes, Nor will the cam's as the S16 is more of a Iron blocked Mi16, I'd just go with some decent cam's and a mapable ECU as getting the std one mapped isn;t cheap and stick with the inlet as they are good upto 240bhp with some porting internally.

Thw weight of the V6 isn;t much more and it's a bullet proof engine (thankfully made by Renault) but you do get more weight further forward but no one has done a proper V6 AFAIK only chav spec one's so it would be good to know what a sorted one would be like with allot of weight out of the car

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'd be tempted by one of 205 parts rear Anti roll bar's, but the trailing arm need's maching to make a good sized one fit

[Doof 11]

Theres a post by my called something like "how far to take the standard management" that should be about a month old. Check it out as theres some useful information on getting a few more ponies out of an S16. Basically a 1.9 Mi crank and injectors coupled with some cams and your current inlet setup should see 175bhp nicely.

[petert 554]

The best quick route for power and throttle response on these engines is to change the inlet cam and fit 1.9L injectors. The head is essentially identical to an Mi16, so all the same tuning principles apply. Decking the block is probably not an option, so just do the other two. Keep in mind that there is a cam reference sensor on the end of the inlet cam. I leave these in place whilst grinding. If you buy a new cam you'll need to press it off, then press it back on to the new cam in the right place. You can't buy the tangs individually, so look after it!

 

The cam on the left is a standard S16 inlet. The cam on the right is a 1.9L Mi16 Stage I regrind with a custom made tang pressed on.

 

In addition, the GTi6 inlet timing is actually slightly milder than Mi16/S16. Fitting a GTi6 engine is a lot of money/effort for little gain. In my opinion, the S16 engine is a far better base to start with. Very under rated.

Edited July 22, 2007 by petert

[s16 Peggy 0]

Theres a post by my called something like "how far to take the standard management" that should be about a month old. Check it out as theres some useful information on getting a few more ponies out of an S16. Basically a 1.9 Mi crank and injectors coupled with some cams and your current inlet setup should see 175bhp nicely.

 

Thanks for the answer.

 

So by fitting the Mi1.9 crank, does that increase the capacity? Sounds like an interesting option.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Thw weight of the V6 isn;t much more and it's a bullet proof engine (thankfully made by Renault) but you do get more weight further forward but no one has done a proper V6 AFAIK only chav spec one's so it would be good to know what a sorted one would be like with allot of weight out of the car

 

Oooooooo, that comment is gonna upset a couple of members on here Miles

[welshpug 1,627]

Oooooooo, that comment is gonna upset a couple of members on here Miles

 

lol, I think he means 205's the 309 is far from Chav

[Baz 421]

Was GLP not referring to the weight not being such an issue comment that Miles made?

 

[28CRAIG 2]

I think gti6 head with a inlet cam, MI crank and proper management should see some very good bhp and torque all over the rev range and can all be done cheaper than a set of bodies.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Ian off this Forum (My old 306 S16) has sent away for the Inlet cam and his also has the GTi6 inlet, I think he re have it re-maped afterwards so it will be intresting to see the results

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Ian off this Forum (My old 306 S16) has sent away for the Inlet cam and his also has the GTi6 inlet, I think he re have it re-maped afterwards so it will be intresting to see the results

 

There's a lot of popular misconceptions about Peugeots, one being they don't handle with the 2ltr cast block, another I think is will be is the V6 weighs a lot more than a GTI6 engine.

As I did with the Mi against a S16 engine and found the weight differences between the two to be a front end bending 16kg (or a bit more than the weight of the battery) I'm gonna get my V6 on our scales at work with my six engine. People warned me a lot of the weight difference is in the gear box of the V6 set up, I put them both on the scales earlier this week and found the difference to be 9kg's. Watch this space for the weight differences between the engines.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

its not so much the weight difference, its where the weight is placed, the v6 has a lot more weight in front of the front of the wheels dragging the COG further forwards. As said earlier it wqould be good to see just how well a 205 will handle using one of these engines and I suppose with the right suspension the extra weight probably wouldnt factor anyway, but again thats all cost.

[welshpug 1,627]

IMO if you wang the battery in the boot as far back as you can it will offset the weight an engine out front

 

the front bank of the V6 is near vertical so I cant see it being much further forwards than the intake manifold is on the XU.

 

All you need to do to realise that weight in front of the wheels isnt such an issue is to look under the bonnet of a focus RS, or a corsa redtop, complete engine assemblies sat bolt upright, with the gearbox in the same layout as PSA.

 

 

 

lol, love how these threads go off topic so easily!!

 

Cam the S16, and if you can afford it fit a mappable management system to make the most of any modifications, the original management will allready be struggling with the intake you've fitted.

[petert 554]

I thought the idea was to suggest cheap upgrades? Fitting an 88mm Mi16 crank is a great idea, as it increases capacity, increases CR and decreases the squish height, but it sure isn't cheap! Consider the cost of bearings, gaskets, seals, head bolts etc., if you can find a decent crank.

 

Fitting a GTi6 head is also a misconception, particularly when there is perfectly good head there, capable of making 250+hp in standard form.

 

The S16 already has a good ECU, it just needs richening up a tad for track use. Sure you could spend a lot more money by reprogramming it or fitting an aftermarket ECU, but there still remains the limitation of the standard injectors. They simply don't flow enough to make anymore hp. The 1.9L injectors (8V or 16V), flow that little bit extra that richen the mixture up perfectly for track use.

 

You've done the right thing fitting the GTi6 inlet manifold. Just change the inlet cam and change the injectors. There's a dozen suspension, body, gearbox and brake mods that will significantly improve times before needing to spend more on hp.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Would it run ok emissions wise etc using the standard ECU but with the slightly higher flowing 1.9L injectors for road use as well as on the track or would you need to lower the fuel pressure slightly?

[petert 554]

They run 12.5 to 13.5, but won't lock onto closed loop, 14.7:1. I'm not sure what your emissions test involves, but 12.5:1 at idle is fine. The diagnostic fault will come on because it can't lock onto closed loop, but that doesn't matter for a track car.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Thw weight of the V6 isn;t much more and it's a bullet proof engine (thankfully made by Renault) but you do get more weight further forward but no one has done a proper V6 AFAIK only chav spec one's so it would be good to know what a sorted one would be like with allot of weight out of the car

 

Well both Graeme Jeram and my conversion are not chav spec and serious detail has been given to the chassis...even the wishbones have been moved forward to create caster and thus more high speed stability. I can't say mine is a trackcar, it's just not build for it, but it handles very good.

 

Notice some other conversions. Most have the V6 enginemount lined up with the 205 body enginemount, while both Graeme and mine sits about two inches further backwards.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

ta Peter

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

I'm planning on fitting my rad in the spare wheel area which will help offset any extra weight (my batteries already in the back), also I think it was S16peggy that was telling my he'd saved a whole chunk of weight by changing the bonnet for a glass one.

There's loads of these 200+bhp engines around that people cant give away, as long as the weight difference isn't massive and can to be overcome easily it got to be worth a look for anyone that wants a cheap v/fast car.

I just bought my V6 engine and box for £150,I'll get £500 for my six engine.

Edited July 23, 2007 by crf450

[s16 Peggy 0]

also I think it was S16peggy that was telling my he'd saved a whole chunk of weight by changing the bonnet for a glass one.

There's loads of these 200+bhp engines around that people cant give away, as long as the weight difference isn't massive and can to be overcome easily it got to be worth a look for anyone that wants a cheap v/fast car.

I just bought my V6 engine and box for £150,I'll get £500 for my six engine.

 

It was, I saved 14k over the standard bonnet by fitting a fibre glass one

 

I have heard several stories about whats involved in the engive swap for a V6 and they are available quite cheaply for sure. However I understand that there is quite a bit of work to get the engine mounts sorted, and the clutch has to be adapted from a cable to a Hydraulic unit. So what I need is someone with an engineering company to make the required parts and sell them as a conversion kit.......

 

All I need now is to find someone with their own engineering company