Be3 Gearbox Rebuild

[frodo_monkey 0]

Hi all,

 

Having done a couple of races now I feel I'm running out of gears in the 1.6 (std 1.6 BE3 box), so have decided to go for a hybrid 'box. Cash is a little tight so for now have gone for a 1.9 BE3 box (thanks ChrisG) with a 4.4 CWP (cheers Miles!) with an aspiration to get a plate-type LSD when cash allows

 

Having searched on here and Google, I've found this for a CWP change which is top:

 

http://www.rallyparts.co.uk/cwp_change/

 

But has anybody done an idiots guide for a 'box rebuild? I'm in no rush to change it, so I'd rather pull it apart myself so I can see how it works Also, my Haynes is the new ghey version that doesn't have gearbox disassembly in, would anyone be able to either scan it in or photocopy theirs and send it over to me (for some beer money of course).

 

All advice appreciated!

 

Cheers,

 

Frodo

Edited June 10, 2007 by frodo_monkey

[gti-si 0]

I'll scan you in the Haynes pages when I get home, just at the Mothers now. If nobody has put one up when im home i'll get it scanned and upped

[zilog 0]

If you have the BE1 rebuild pages, could you please scan them as well?

[frodo_monkey 0]

Right, having picked up the 'box earlier, I may as well start the project diary here!

 

The box as I bought it (from ChrisG on here), £20, bargain!

 

 

A bit manky, but nothing that some engine degreaser, a paintbrush and my garden hose couldn't sort! An hour or two later:

 

 

Much nicer! I will paint it before it goes in the car, but that'll be a week or two probably

So with the gearbox on its stand (pikey B&Q workmate), I took the 19mm drain plug out, undid the six or so 11mm bolts holding the end cover on and whipped it off:

 

 

Couldn't be ar$ed doing any more today, and I want to read the Haynes blah first anyway

 

Next update soon

[jim21070 2]

I'm doing the same thing Although my goal is to repair a duff 3rd/4th sunchromesh in my 1.6 'box

 

Jackherer let me have a 'box to practice on today and it is in bits Thanks Jackherer!

 

It is not as tricky as it looks and using a combination of the excellent pictures on the rallyparts site (but less than detailed text) and the Orange Haynes, the job is not at all hard.

 

You need a good socket to get the input and output shaft nuts off. A 5/8" Whitworth bi-hex socket fits these nuts perfectly. Drive out the rollpin on the 5th selector fork and put the main box in any other gear but 5th and engage fifth manually by pressing down on the 5th gear baulk ring. This will lock the gearbox so you can undo the nut above the fifth synchro hub.

 

The 5th gear synchro can then be pulled off complete with the selector fork. Watch for the ball and spring of the detent popping out of the selector fork! Remove the little "C" clip holding the fifth selector fork onto the shaft first. (it is just below what looks like a massive screwdriver slot)

 

Then, temporarily replace the 5th synchro hub so you can undo the output shaft nut with the gearbox locked. Remove both bits of 5th gear, pop out the big "C" clip around the output shaft bearing, remove the selector shaft locking plate. Remove the reverse gear shaft locating bolt on the side of the gearbox case.

 

Undo the 600 bolts securing the case to the bellhousing and gently tap on the lugs to separate it. Lift it off and be prepared for the reverse idler gear to flop out.

 

Put in neutral and drive out the roll-pins on the gear selector shaft that holds the selector fingers. Pull out the shaft.

 

Now carefully manipulate the selector fingers out of the way, manipulate the selector forks and lift out the gear cluster complete with selector forks and selector fork shafts. You can pull the selector fork shaft out to give a bit more manouverability. Watch out for the ball and spring detents in each slecetor fork popping out.

 

That is as far as I have got today!

 

I'll post my nex instalment in due course. That'll be how to get 3rd/4th synchro hub off the input shaft.

 

Hope my experience helps a little...

 

Any questions or not clear, I'll clarify.

Edited June 10, 2007 by jim21070

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

By swapping gearboxes to a 1.9 with 4.4 fd you'll run out of gears even more than on a 1.6 gearbox!! They will all be shorter than before.

 

Graham.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

1.6 box in my Visa with its 13" wheels will do 127-128 on the limiter in 5th. I only hit 120 at Goodwood and I have 40bhp more than you. Surely only Snetterton would be an issue for you topping out with your current box?

[frodo_monkey 0]

Pugtorque - yes, having gone and re-appraised myself of how gearboxes work I see your point! Hmm...

 

VisaGTi16v- I found at Croft that I spent the whole back section (Jim Clark Esses etc) in the top end of fourth and then fifth. At Anglesey last week from the first hairpin to the tight lefthander I was in fifth again, whereas everyone else seemed to be in fourth. Only other place I can remember is Gerrards at Mallory - thats flat in 4th for me and then 5th straight away on the exit. But it also feels like it doesn't have a lot of pull out of slower corners... So maybe I should still fit the 4.4CWP and just work the top gears harder?

 

So is it maybe my driving (gearchanging specifically) that sucks?! I've been changing up between 6000-6500rpm (My peak of 130bhp is at 6600, peak torque of 105lbft at 5750)??

 

Either way I'll strip and rebuild the box and fit the new CWP, even just as a practice

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Well as long as the engines in the power band the gearing wont make much difference. If you fit higher ratios you may find its off cam in 5th or something. I certaintly wouldnt be changing up between 6-6.5k if my peak bhp was 6.6k as you are wasting power. Unless you are giving the engine a breather its full bore all the time! heh. My shift light comes on at 7050rpm, limit 7200 and I wont change until the lights on unless I need to do an early shift for a corner or something

 

Sounds like a good idea to rebuild that box anyway so you could always do one of the cheaper half day or evening track days with it so see what its like. It will still be a blast then you can decide which one to fit permantely

[frodo_monkey 0]

jim21070 - thanks for that! Unfortunately I've discovered I don't actually own a 28mm socket, and I haven't seen the Haynes article yet (could someone scan it/photcopy it please?) so work is kinda grinding to a halt. Though I did get as far as taking the C clip out and driving the rollpin out before I sliced a finger open on the synchro

Edited June 11, 2007 by frodo_monkey

[jim21070 2]

No worries Frodo!

 

I would scan the pages but I have no scanner until tomorrow morning. If no-one else has done so by then I will happily do so for you. Sorry to hear the synchro bit you

 

Here is how to dismantle the input shaft once you get there:

 

The first job is to remove the taper bearing on the 5th gear end of the shaft. You need to support the third gear pinion and drive down on the fifth gear end of the shaft with a copper mallet, just enough to move the bearing enough to get a bearing puller in there. There is a VERY REAL risk of chipping the teeth on the third gear pinion and it needs to be supported very well. I chipped mine and realise I need to make a hollow mandrel to hold the gear much more securely. With a mandrel of the right size it should be OK to drive against the outer of the 3rd gear synchro clutch housing.

 

Once the bearing is off, the pinions and synchro hub can be pulled off the shaft in order.

 

To reinstall the bearing at the end of work it will be necessary to make up a mandrel to press it home. I'll be making these tools and will post details in due course.

 

I discovered that the 3rd gear synchro cone was completely worn out. Jackherer did indicate that the synchros were a bit weak in this box and he was not wrong!

 

Here is a quick picture of the synchro assembly. The wear on the cone can be seem quite clearly as a bit of fretting in the alloy. I believe, comparing the fifth gear synchro cone, that lines should be visible on the cone! The spring is OK though.

 

Edited June 11, 2007 by jim21070

[jim21070 2]

Frodo,

 

You have a PM...

[mickie 3]

i tried this but i still dont know what im looking at with the synchronizers

[zilog 0]

Could anyone please try to tell whether or not the material on the circumference of the synchronizer rings is steel or brass. I would also like someone to approximately measure the inner- and outer diameter of the rings as well as the thickness of the material. I need this to order material for fabrication of new rings for my gearbox, which I unfortunately have no access to for the closest couple of weeks.

[jim21070 2]

Could anyone please try to tell whether or not the material on the circumference of the synchronizer rings is steel or brass.

 

It's an aluminium alloy by the look and feel of it Zilog. A pretty hard one by the looks of it.

 

I'll measure my fifth gear synchro. I think they're all the same size. The one in the picture above is far too worn to measure!

 

Why are you making them and not buying new ones from Pug then?

[zilog 0]

It's an aluminium alloy by the look and feel of it Zilog. A pretty hard one by the looks of it.

 

I'll measure my fifth gear synchro. I think they're all the same size. The one in the picture above is far too worn to measure!

 

Why are you making them and not buying new ones from Pug then?

 

What price is the pug ones where you live? Here in sweden they seem to want gold for them..

[jim21070 2]

What price is the pug ones where you live? Here in sweden they seem to want gold for them..

 

Not cheap! I've just had to sit down after speaking to our local Dealer. £121 but at least that includes VAT

 

I'm told they are a stock item though!