1.6 Gti Tuning

[Guest liam b]

im looking for a 1.6 gti because i cant find and cheap 1.9's, what mods can be done to get a 1.6 running 130bhp?

 

is the 1.6 16v?

 

and what are the xu and tu engines? (noob)

 

any info would be great cheers

[gti-si 0]

The XU are a series of engines used in peugeots and citreons that range from the 1.6 (XU5) to the 2.0 (XU10). The 1.6 is an XU5 engine. The TU's are smaller 4 cylinder engines such as the 1.4 in the Pug XS and the 1.3 in the Rallye

 

The 1.6 is an 8v just like the 1.9 XU9 engine. There are things like carbs, a new cam and headwork which can give you more punch, not sure exactly how much you can get though.

 

If you really can't find a 1.9 within your budget you can always install a 1.9 engine at a later date, although it'd be much easier to save longer and buy the 1.9 in the first place.

Edited June 7, 2007 by gti-si

[Guest liam b]

thanks for clearing that up

 

well the plan was to see what i can make out of as little as possible because i have a fiesta zetec-s as my daily driver which has about 103 bhp but i wanted to buy 205 to strip and have fun in, and part of that idea was to get a bit more out of the 1.6 with mods such as carbs but looking into it seems quite expensive, how much am i looking at to get 130hp? and how much are engine conversions in 205's?

 

thanks

[Rupertfinch 6]

I could say 'do a search' and I thoroughly recommend doing that, but I know how daunting this forum can seem the first few times you look at it.

 

Firstly, what can't you do? There's a shed load you can do to the car, the only limit is money. A few bhp can be freed up by fitting a newer air filter (K&N or Green Cotton seem to be favourites - I've a K&N), alternatively you can get rid of the entire air housing system and go for an induction system (beware it doesn't suck in warm air - that's a bollox and will reduce power)/

 

You could replace the exhaust with a more free flowing system (magnex are nice), replace the exhaust manifold while you're at it.

 

The you could, put a new camshaft on, strip out the interior, only put 3 litres of petrol in at a time (reduces weight). Honestly, do a search, you'll be amazed at what you can do.

 

Remember they are old cars, even a phase 1.5/2 1.6 will be very unlikely to still have the 115bhp it left the factory with.

 

Your other questions - No the 1.6 and the 1.9 are both 8valve. You need to add an engine known as an Mi16 if you want 16v fun, incidentally this makes them go like a missile, but you don't want to be there when you hit a tree.

 

XU engines are those from the GTi and CTi models

1.6 is XU5J 18OA (up until 1986 - 105bhp)

XU5JA B6D is the later 1.6 engine (1986 on)

XU9JA this is the 1.9 engine, XU9JAZ (1.9 with catalytic converter - gay 122bhp)

 

TU engines belong to 'lesser' pugs , eg the Rallye, XS, GT, CJ etc .

 

Hope this has helped.

[Rupertfinch 6]

You don't want a 1.9 anyway, they are s*iteboxes with crappy slow gearboxes!

[pip470 61]

the cheapest and easiest way to go faster is to strip everything you dont need. as its not your daily driver you dont really need the comforts of the carpet ect. Just done exactly the same and the change is amazing, although as soon as youve done that you will want to go even faster and sadly like me will have to start dishing out some money. Phill

 

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/p...05/DSCF3195.jpg

[Guest liam b]

great info

 

how much are camshafts and for fitting roughly? what gains?

and carbs?

 

do induction kits work on older engines better than newer ones? mine didnt really do much to my 2001 fiesta.

 

i'll search now btw

[Guest liam b]

stripping it was a plan but maybe not as much as that lol, still want doorcards and dash i rekon

[gti-si 0]

Inductions kits don't give much noticable difference in speed but they definatly increase throttle response, aslong as, like Rupert said, your sucking cool air. Cams are what? £100 - £150? Something like that. Not very hard to DIY it, just as I'm going to find out, resetting the clearences is quite fiddly.

 

Get a good set of second hand webbers and refurb them I think. That won't set you back too much and there's plenty of topics floating around where you can find examples of prices for these.

 

Depending what cam you get though, they can become very lumpy on idle, just a note.

[danpug 1]

I'd defintely think hard about some carbs for a nice chunk of extra grunt and a sound to die for.

[Guest liam b]

how much are those? its all about the cost

[danpug 1]

You could probably grab set off ebay with inlet manifold for between 200-300, depending on how lucky you are. Also have to budget for a setup. Decent power will cost you money unfortunately!

Edited June 7, 2007 by danpug

[bobob 0]

What about a 1.9 head if its an early 1600. This'll be a straight swap. There loads of info on here about it

[Rupertfinch 6]

Just whatever you do make sure you start with a straight car. Read up on rear beams, they can be a pain in the arse. If you buy a car with a seized rear beam, it probably won't seem immediately obvious (esp if you've never driven a GTi before). And then you go and spend a fortune on carbs (mmm noise to die for) and up the grunt stakes, but as the Pirelli advert used to say 'Power without control is nothing'.

 

The pug isn't a true 'I'll kick your arse in a straight line' car. It's a 'Hmm R32? Nice! Shame you won't be able to keep up with me on a B road' car.

 

Does it seem obvious that I've had handling issues?

[brianthemagical 1]

cheapesat way is a 1.9. but you'll soon find out that and extra 15bhp is nowt unless you redline your car in every gear (obviously only first and second on a 1.9 box). if you regularly drive in need of power your a cracking driver or your picking the wrong roads. either way a 205 probs isn't the best choice (try an r32).

[Grim.Badger 15]

A few bhp can be freed up by fitting a newer air filter (K&N or Green Cotton seem to be favourites - I've a K&N), alternatively you can get rid of the entire air housing system and go for an induction system (beware it doesn't suck in warm air - that's a bollox and will reduce power)

You won't release more power with an induction kit but it may change the throttle response.

 

You could replace the exhaust with a more free flowing system (magnex are nice), replace the exhaust manifold while you're at it.

The standard Peugeot exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe itself are not restrictive and are superior to most after market jobs so changing them will make no difference.

 

The you could, put a new camshaft on, strip out the interior, only put 3 litres of petrol in at a time (reduces weight). Honestly, do a search, you'll be amazed at what you can do.

New camshafts aren't going to do much unless you put really wild ones in and lose a lot of every-day drivability.

 

Remember they are old cars, even a phase 1.5/2 1.6 will be very unlikely to still have the 115bhp it left the factory with.

The 1.6 apparently keeps closer to its original power than the 1.9, probably because there is more lee-way in the air/fuel/ignition system for problems. There is nothing wrong with the 1.9 when they are in good working order but they are more abused than the 1.6 imo so more likely to run badly, the gearbox is just slightly longer ratio'd and so won't be quite as "quick" but remember that the 1.9 is the faster of the two cars.

 

Your other questions - No the 1.6 and the 1.9 are both 8valve. You need to add an engine known as an Mi16 if you want 16v fun

The 16v engines are the 1.9 16v (Alloy block Mi16), 1.8 16v (not recommended unless you want to get some headwork done), 2.0 16v (S16/steel block Mi16) and another 2.0 16v (GTi6). The GTi6 is the most powerful and reliable; it has better oil pressure control than the Mi16, which is becoming famous for oil pressure problems.

 

Try driving it first, if it is a good one it will probably make the Ford seem like a slouch even with "115" bhp.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Grim.Badger

[ah250 0]

I suppose that its horses for courses really.....

 

I wouldnt bother with spending on filters/carbs/exhausts/cams etc....that little lot will cost you £500....

 

If it were me on a budget, i'd:

 

1. Strip the weight out of it (which will make it quicker, and cost ehmmm 'nothing' )...remember that power/tonne ratio is what makes the 205 sprightly!

 

2. Look at a 205 with an Mi16/GTI6 fitted.....OK, may be much more expensive to buy but will have around 160Bhp and you haven't got to start fiddling or buying extras! At a guess, a tidy'ish' 205 GTI's going to be £800'ish', with an Mi16 £1500'ish' ????

 

3. 1+2 plus a free grin!

 

Dave

Edited June 8, 2007 by ah250

[Rupertfinch 6]

Clearly I rattled your set grim badger

[Rupertfinch 6]

I haven't seen a more liberal use of quotation since I wrote my dissertation!

 

Actually never thought about the other 16v options, so thanks for that. But I maintain that sticking in a K&N filter give my Pug a little more oomph (although it could just be the increased noise), and a peugeot dealers daughter swore blind to me that the full Magnex system was definately worth a few extra horses.

[ah250 0]

I haven't seen a more liberal use of quotation since I wrote my dissertation!

 

Actually never thought about the other 16v options, so thanks for that. But I maintain that sticking in a K&N filter give my Pug a little more oomph (although it could just be the increased noise), and a peugeot dealers daughter swore blind to me that the full Magnex system was definately worth a few extra horses.

 

1. Whats a dissertation & can you fit a K&N on it.

 

2. Who trusts a Peugeot Dealer? let alone a Peugeot Dealers daughter? Could add lots here, but i'll refrain!

 

D

[GLPoomobile 958]

Clearly I rattled your set grim badger

 

 

I don't think you rattled his set, but he obviously decided it was a good time to come along and impart some sensible advise from the knowledge that this forum has built up over the years. No offense to you, but at the end of the day, induction kits and exhausts on a 205 GTI do absolutely sod all unless they are part of a bigger tuning picture. You might release 2 or 3 bhp, but most people wont actually notice the difference in such an increase.

 

Also, so many people get hung up on the 1.9. Why? In real terms there is very little difference performance wise, they just deliver in different ways. The extra torque of the 1.9 is noticeable, but it really isn't much faster than a 1.6. Plus the 1.9 was never supposed to have 130BHP, it's 130PS which is about 128BHP, and the general consensus from those with a long track record of GTIs is that the 1.9s never made the claimed power anyway.

 

At the end of the day, my opinion is that trying to squeeze more performance from a 1.6 8v is wasted money unless you have a specific reason to use the engine (competition). I'd concentrate on looking for the best example of a 1.6 or 1.9 you can find and then make it run properly and strip weight out of it, and uprate suspension and brakes etc.

Edited June 8, 2007 by GLPoomobile

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I completely agree with GLPoo and GrimBadger. I've driven and been driven in 1.6's (including GLP's), owned a 1.9 and an Mi16 205 and am currently doing an overbore (iron block) 2.2litre Mi hybrid. They are ALL immensely enjoyable for their own reasons, the 1.6 especially so because it makes you drive the car better/harder IMHO.

 

K&N and all that s*ite add-on/replacement air filters are pump and do nowt for performance. If you want cheap, then you're really better off getting a sound car in the first place that doesn't need beam replacement, bodywork or brake pipes being renewed.

 

If you do find a good 1.6 then you'll have to choose whether any money is best spent on keeping it original, which in itself is a job. If you still want more power, i.e. outright pull, then go 1.9. If you can drive the 1.6 well and let it rev then you'll see that performance difference i.e. speed between the 2 is negligable. A 16valver, Mi/S16 or GTI6 is a different experience alltogether and has its own demands on effort and cash to keep it running.

 

Back to your original question. IF you want a 1.6 to start with and insist on spending on it to make it more powerful, then sod the filters and the exhaust (unless you just like different noises), and get cam and head work which is likely to cost you as much as a running car i.e. another £600.

 

I'm biased (16v), and would suggest if you have £1200 to spend (£600 for a 1.6 plus £600 in functional mods) then find a valver and drive it. You'll never look back.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

DrS

Edited June 8, 2007 by DrSarty

[Rupertfinch 6]

I meant no offence to my more learned and infinitely more experienced forum members, though I thought the 'set' or is it 'sett'? was too good a pun to ignore! On reflection, I can guarantee that it has already been used before, so my originality is severely lacking.

 

My suggestions were built on conjecture and hear'say and should be regarded as such. Personally, I don't have an induction kit (seem a bit Corsa like) and prefer to keep the engine as Peugeot intended. I do have a K&N replacement element and I do believe it gives me a little more grunt (of course this may be entirely psychological). But, I don't believe I was wrong to suggest some of these 'upgrades', some people like the extra noise.

 

But on the whole I agree with the opinions expressed here, keeping it simple (stripping) and making sure that you buy a solid motor in the first place is a damn sight more sensible than fitting any exhaust or filter.

 

The 'finch retreats to his rock to consider if after all these years he may actually yearn to be part of the 'Max Power Crew'.

 

 

Do I balls!

Edited June 8, 2007 by Rupertfinch

[frodo_monkey 0]

But back to the original question, if you really want a 1.6 kicking out 130bhp, then see here:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=68270

 

And be prepared to spend something in the order of £1500! As people have said above, I stayed 1.6 because I want to stay in the sub-1600cc class I race in - fitting a 16 valver will defo be a cheaper way to that kind of power But hey, I love driving my 1.6 - the noise is awesome, and it loves to rev