Mi16 With Gti6 Box 309 Gti Drive Shafts

[Guest mattyh]

I have fitted and allu Mi16 with a Gti6 box into my 205 using the 405 top mount on the engine and 205 gearbox mount. Put 309Gti lower arms and drive shafts in. The drive side fits fine but the passenger side wont.

The shaft will go in between the hub and the gear box but the lower arm is not long enough to reach between the hub and the subframe. It is about 4mm too short.

I have checked the lower arm against the old 205 arm and it is longer so I assume it is right.

 

I have measured the steps on the drive shaft and it is meeting its home positionon the large plain diameter. There is then a 3/4mm gap between the gearbox and the slide housing on the shaft. Should this gap be there or should the slide housing meet against thegearbox?

Or

Have I got the wrong drive shaft?

Or

Is the engine and gearbox in the wrong place?

 

All help will be much appreciated as it is getting really annoying now.

 

Thanks.

[midnight motorsport 0]

I have fitted and allu Mi16 with a Gti6 box into my 205 using the 405 top mount on the engine and 205 gearbox mount. Put 309Gti lower arms and drive shafts in. The drive side fits fine but the passenger side wont.

The shaft will go in between the hub and the gear box but the lower arm is not long enough to reach between the hub and the subframe. It is about 4mm too short.

I have checked the lower arm against the old 205 arm and it is longer so I assume it is right.

 

I have measured the steps on the drive shaft and it is meeting its home positionon the large plain diameter. There is then a 3/4mm gap between the gearbox and the slide housing on the shaft. Should this gap be there or should the slide housing meet against thegearbox?

Or

Have I got the wrong drive shaft?

Or

Is the engine and gearbox in the wrong place?

 

All help will be much appreciated as it is getting really annoying now.

 

Thanks.

 

hi matt, you have to use the inner cv joint from a gti6, or late s16, but you only use the cup part of it,(the bit with the spline) ie..

cut the clip of of your 309 drive shaft cv boot, slide the joint off, being careful not to lose the three bearings, then get the gti6 joint fill it with some new grease, and slide it back on, put another clip on it, then try fitting it to the car, it will go on a treat,

 

jay

[steige 1 1 Cars]

I have exactly the same set up as you (Mi engine, gti6 box and 309 shfats and arms)on the front of my 205 and everything fits fine. I didn't modify the Cv joints!

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Is the shaft slotted in the gearbox properly (fully)?

[whizzer71 0]

I too had to change the n/s inner shaft cup as Midnight describes when I fitted my 6 engine and gearbox to my 205.

 

[16v205 9]

I didnt have to change mine? is there different versions of diff's or castings or similar for the gti-6 box?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

There's the revised diff as fitted to most Pug's from around 1993/4, this leaves the inner shaft/spline a different length to the old Diff used upto 1993 and hense the problem, to over come this you can as said shaft the inner shaft over or change the diff.

[midnight motorsport 0]

There's the revised diff as fitted to most Pug's from around 1993/4, this leaves the inner shaft/spline a different length to the old Diff used upto 1993 and hense the problem, to over come this you can as said shaft the inner shaft over or change the diff.

 

Yeah, from memory my 6 speed came from a p reg car, and i had to swap the inner cv joint, and my mates box came from a similar aged car and that had to be changed too,

 

this early diff spline thing, isnt something to do with limited slip diffs being fitted?

as i know that quaife list the same diff for all 'be' gearboxes

 

just a thought

 

jay

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You can fit them the other way around as it's only a couple of mm, But you can use the 306 inner shaft to fit the ZF plate diff Pug supplied to save the silly amount they charged for driveshafts

[Guest mattyh]

Thankyou for the replies guys, very much appreciated.

 

I will go down the route of changing the end of the shaft to the gti6 one, I see this as being easier and cheaper.

 

What age Gti6 does the spline and cup need to be from?

 

Also(!)

 

Manually on the gearbox I can only find 4 gears! Pushing the lever into the box gets a gear either side, letting it rest there is a gear either side but there is no more movement. Shouldn't the lever pull out of the box (toward the back of the car) and get another gear either side?

I have yet to get the pull up for reverse gear stick and cable so am not surprised I cant get reverse but I should be able to get the 6 forward gears, shouldn't I?

I am in half a mind before I have got the shafts in to pull the box out and strip it down and find the problem, if there is one.

 

Thanks once again for your help. Good to be able to get so much knowledge so easily otherwise I would have been struggling for a very long time!

[whizzer71 0]

Hi Matt,yep the gear selection shaft should move out backwards as well,If when you changed the lever on top of the gearbox for the Gti one,did the shaft drop down inside a bit?if you pulled it back up in the wrong place the part inside the box which this connects to can go back the wrong side of the selectors in the box.

Hope this makes sense dont know of any other way of describing it,If you do a search on this topic there are some really helpfull pics somewhere on here.

 

Good luck

 

Tris

 

[Guest mattyh]

Ahh, that would explain it. It did move up and down a bit when I fitted the 205 arm. I will check that and see if I can feel any different positions. Really don't want to be taking the box off and stripping it down as it is something else to do!

 

Thanks.

[whizzer71 0]

You wont have to remove the box mate,just knock the pin out ,drop the arm in a bit ,rotate it and then pull it back out,arm should align paralell with fins in casing I e straight backwards and not slightly to one side.#

Hope this sorts it for you !

 

[whizzer71 0]

Hey Matt I just see your In Maidstone,If you want to meet 4 a chin wag sometime or want to check my car out Pm me and ill give you my No.

 

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

I think I should add some pics for more info on this topic:

 

Old vs New diff (obviously the new one is bigger):

 

Driveshaft difference:

[Guest mattyh]

Had a play with it tonight but couldn't get it to engage properly and work both ways.

Looked at the box I took out and got that to work. THought I would have a look inside and see how it works, what a bad idea! Havn't been able to get it back together yet! Got fed up with it in the end and it was dark so I will look at it again another day.

Hopefully I will feel bette rin the morning and will sort out the 6 box in the car tomorrow.

 

Be good to catch up at some point, see your car and see one working!

I'm sure I will sort mine eventually!

 

Thanks for the pics Hilgie, can really see the difference between them. Will have a look at my shafts again tomorrow to see the difference and I can get a new bit.

My new 309 shaft looks like the one on the left and the old 205 shaft like the one on the right. I want one that looke like the one on the right don't I?

 

THanks again for the help guys, I am needing it! Everyone has to learn at some point!

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

You'd want the one on the left for your 6spd box. The shorter shaft gives you just enough clearance for the bigger diff inside your box.

[steve@cornwall 100]

You'd want the one on the left for your 6spd box. The shorter shaft gives you just enough clearance for the bigger diff inside your box.

 

Could a 205 shaft be used with the 309 bones? just an idea as some opinion seems to be that the 205 shaft is only just too short (if at all) to be used with 309 set up

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

No it will pop out under full lock....and besides that, it does not solve the problem of the driveshaft not going into the gearbox fully....so it will leak.

[Guest mattyh]

I have had another look at the shafts and the new 309 shaft has the shorter splined shaft at the gearbox end - and it won't fit!

The old 205 shaft has the longer splined shaft.

 

Any more ideas why it all won't fit?

 

Has anyone got any measurements for the splined shaft I want? Then I can make sure this shaft I have got is/isn't the right one, and start looking at everything else.

Edited June 4, 2007 by mattyh

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Why won't it fit? Diameter too large? Splines wrong?

[Guest mattyh]

When the shaft is put in the box and in the hub it fits fine, when the lower arm is offered up it is about 4/5mm too short/out of position.

 

When I tried to fit it I tried jacking the suspension up to change the geometry and make it easier to go in but it didn't work. The sliding part of the driveshaft was fully compressed and if the lower arm had been forced into position the suspension wouldn't have been able to extend or move as the driveshaft would have locked it in place.

 

Been very helpful on here telling me what I need to do, change the end of the shaft or change the diff.

I have looked at the pictures you have posted which are very useful. It looks like the plain shoulder closest to the CV cup on the two shafts are different lengths. On my 205 and 309 shafts they are the same length but the plain bit behind the splines are different lengths as in the photos you posted. The 205 is longer and the splines contact with the inside of the diff before the locating diametre is home. On the 309 shaft the splines go in properly and the shoulder mates home but the shaft appears to be too long.

In the photos the one on the left has a larger length shoulder so would make the shaft sit even further out making it even harder to fit the lower arm.

When the 309 shaft is put in the box there is about a 4/5mm gap between the CV cup and the outside of the diff, is this right?

 

The splines are correct, the diameters are correct. It seems as though I need to cut about 5mm out of the middle of the shaft!

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Aha...might be that your original driveshaft had a shorter shoulder and the new one is different so it doesn't line up properly. I have used this method only with original Peugeot driveshatfs....what brand is yours? Are you maybe mixing two brands?

[Guest mattyh]

I got my shafts from a local motorfactor. The name on them are shaftech. I have to return the old ones so these maybe overhauled shafts that I have. They maybe original Peugeot from before but I don't know for sure.

 

I will go out and measure the shafts at some point so that there are some details put up here to help work it out.