Wet Liners And Turbo 's

[JR20516V 6]

As mentioned above....are wet liners and a turbo on a mi16 a recipe for disaster.

Some say yes...some say..no problems .

Any input would be greatful.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

There are not many people running forced induction Mi16s but the ones who do I have never heard complaining. Although it would not be my prefered option. All high-power 4 cyl. forced induction engines run castiron bottom ends (Cossies, Impreza, EVO etc) so that might be a hint.

[gti_al 1]

Surely they would cope better than an 8 valve turbo, and they don't seem to have too many issues.

[Sandy 189]

Impreza bottom ends are all alloy AFAIK, certainly the ones i've seen in pieces.

[Mikey G 3]

Impreza bottom ends are all alloy AFAIK, certainly the ones i've seen in pieces.

 

Yes, but i dont think they run a wet liner, unless thats the difference between a 'closed deck' engine and the normal engine.

[Sandy 189]

True, I was just pointing out that they don't have iron blocks.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Depends entirley on how much boost you want to try and run with them.

[Mikey G 3]

True, I was just pointing out that they don't have iron blocks.

 

Quick search found this :-

http://www.cgperformance.com/subaru_block.htm

 

Looks like my hunch was half right. But the liners in the 'open' block still look a lot more fixed than those in an alloy block XU engine.

 

I have seen liners give way in a NA Mi16 but they were old liners and suffered cracks. Maybe for low boost i cant see a problem, but anymore and you could be looking at flex. Maybe someone could manufacture some sort of plate to turn the Mi16 into a 'closed deck'?

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Yes the steel liners are cast into the alu block, just like the current EW peugeot engines.

[Sandy 189]

Not sure Peugeot have sussed it yet

 

The T16 engines and 206 and 307 WRC cars used the XU7 block and liners.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

True...and also the 205T16 XU8T was an alloy block with wet liners....

 

But still....I feel more comfortable with a cast iron block....or maybe that's just me

[dee205 3]

So what iron block would be a suitable swap for the 1.9 alloy assuming you were going to use the rest of the 1.9 Mi setup? I take it you would need the whole bottom end. ie. pistons, crank.

Is it the weakness of the wet liners what is the main issue in using forced induction?

 

 

 

Damien

[24seven 104]

the sunny GTi-R and other cars with the nissan SR20DET are alloy block wet liner turbos. The SR20 in any guise is a very reliable lump.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Ah..didn't know that about the SR20...very good engine indeed. High power and fool proof.

[Mandic 0]

Hmm, wouldn't call that separate liner

 

http://www.ap-tuning.co.uk/gallery/main.ph...p;g2_itemId=552

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[Mikey G 3]

Hmm, wouldn't call that separate liner

 

http://www.ap-tuning.co.uk/gallery/main.ph...p;g2_itemId=552

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

 

Looks similar to the 'closed deck' scooby blocks. The liners are separate though but could be fitted into a 'dry' bore.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Yeah...seems like the liners are cast into the aluminium just like the EW engine (in other words...the EW engine is very suited for high boost applications).

[24seven 104]

hmm. perhaps the DET is different then. I'm sure the DE is wet lined.

 

 

[edit] ignore me I'm completely wrong.

Edited May 16, 2007 by 24Seven

[Guest Raisin]

hmm. perhaps the DET is different then. I'm sure the DE is wet lined.

[edit] ignore me I'm completely wrong.

Isn't the LOTUS ESPRIT TURBO SE powered by high-boost wet liner 2.2 R4 engine?? I am looking at the cutaway wiev of the Lotus engine and it looks like XU9J4 really I guess wet liners are OK since they can give away more heat ... Besides 900+BHP Xantia Rally Cross utilised stock XU9J4 block and retained wet liners... Sooo...

Good luck!

Edited May 25, 2007 by Raisin

[Mikey G 3]

I would like to see evidence and pictures of that!!!

 

3-400bhp is believable but 900 on wet liners with no reinforcment seems ludicrous...

Edited May 25, 2007 by Mikey G

[Guest Raisin]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/css/xantia/xantiacomp.html

Unbeliever...

Sorry, not 900+ but "nearly 700BHP" which is still impressive for a wet liner 1998ccm engine. Of course they must have been reinforced, although the block is stock version (with additional ribs of course)

The funny thing is that the car is still hydropneumatic and... 4x4

 

Earlier car, the BX16V turbo boasted 550hp which proves that XU9J4 is very potent, and forced induction in not such problem as one might think. I think that this intolerance for turbo is a myth, created by those who lamed the modification by using poor gaskets or trying to decrease CR by thickening the gasket.

Besides, XUD9TE is diesel, and is turbocharged (high CR and 1bar boost) and it survives with its wet liners pretty well

 

"Have faith in XU9" - said the XU9 prophet

[Mikey G 3]

I cannot see the block anywhere in that feature, it also says the capacity has been increased to 1998cc, so special liners would have to be made for the block as standard liners would end up too thin for this sort of power.

 

And anyway XUD is a cast iron block is it not? last one i looked at was.

[jackherer 543]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/css/xantia/xantiacomp.html

Unbeliever...

Sorry, not 900+ but "nearly 700BHP" which is still impressive for a wet liner 1998ccm engine. Of course they must have been reinforced, although the block is stock version (with additional ribs of course)

The funny thing is that the car is still hydropneumatic and... 4x4

 

Earlier car, the BX16V turbo boasted 550hp which proves that XU9J4 is very potent, and forced induction in not such problem as one might think. I think that this intolerance for turbo is a myth, created by those who lamed the modification by using poor gaskets or trying to decrease CR by thickening the gasket.

Besides, XUD9TE is diesel, and is turbocharged (high CR and 1bar boost) and it survives with its wet liners pretty well

 

"Have faith in XU9" - said the XU9 prophet

 

That link clearly describes them moving to the heavier cast iron non wet liner 1998cc engine.

 

A major change toke place in 1995. The car had changed its appearance but lost 50kg in total weight. This was a big achievement because the engine was enlarged to 1998cc which was heavier then the older 1905cc version.

 

And the XUD isn't wet linered either I don't think, although I don't know much about dervs.

 

However they did get 550bhp out of a wet linered BX engine which is very impressive.

[Guest Raisin]

That link clearly describes them moving to the heavier cast iron non wet liner 1998cc engine.

 

 

And the XUD isn't wet linered either I don't think, although I don't know much about dervs.

 

However they did get 550bhp out of a wet linered BX engine which is very impressive.

 

Nope, some people from Citroen Club Poland contacted the author. The engine remained wet linered! The slots in the block were remachined and larger liners were put. It is possilble to fit something around ~2080 to this block

Besides... the number 1998 doesnt automatically mean that is XU10. P206 WRC utilised XU7 wet liner block but the displacement was exact 1998ccm due to custom liners

Although difficult the use of wet liners can be justified... They simply disperse heat more efficiently since they are entirely submerged in coolant. If they are ribbed the surface of heat exchange is much greater. In fact XU10 is less potent when it comes to it...

 

XUD9 utilises the same cast iron block as the earlier XU9 variants (D6A, D6D) I think it is wet liner just as the XU9 although I am not 100% sure... But the last time I was examining gaskets, the diesel one suggested "wetlinerness"

 

Well sorry if I make mistakes in technical terms in English I hope everything I write can be understood

[dee205 3]

That doesn't look like an XU9J4 rocker cover to me. Can't make out the writing on it though. If the engine were turned around front wheel drive stylee with the inlet at the front the writing on the RC would be upside down...

 

Maybe it's just me

 

 

Damien