Rad Lowering (again)

[inferno 1]

Ive ripped my bumper off now and looking at the front end, why do people choose to lower the rad and angle it inside the engine bay? why not cut the metal out the bottom, fit a bx rad, and mount it flush with the headlamp panels? will allow more room for oil changes and manifolds/pipe work for a start...

[welshpug 1,622]

because thats a structural member...

[inferno 1]

so lower the member, as you would need it to sit the rad on, and a bolt in section above the rad to hold it in will double up to stiffen the front end too...

any problems with this?

[Ryan 99]

Because it's easier to just put the rad in at an angle. No reason why you couldn't weld in a new crossmember at a lower position though. I think a few people have done.

[Mikey G 3]

because thats a structural member...

 

Bit of a pi$$ poor structure if you ask me, the main structure is in the chassis legs that come forward off the bulkhead. The bit at the bottom front is nothing more than a piece to hold the rad up.

 

I am involved in a 205 project and we were looking to cut this piece out and weld in some square section about 2-3 inches lower, this would probably be stronger than the standard panel.

[inferno 1]

well i cut it out... and something sprang out 2mm lol. so pulled it back together and braced it before chopping it out again. im lowering the rad about 5inches i think , leaving an 8inch gap above the rad.

 

ample space for a hks filter and intercooler pipework

[sonofsam 5]

lol,,, I would of made a jig up personally, so nothing sprang out of shape!

[inferno 1]

yer well i normally would to, but its braced/jigged now so al good

[Emmy Seize 8]

Err well - parts shouldn´t spring apart at all !

 

Jigs are always a good idea, but they are not meant to pull the metal together, just to provide propper location.

 

There shouldn´t be any tension on the panels when welding them together.

 

As for the structural importance of the crossmember:

 

Yes, it is there to help rigidity, but modifying it is absolutely no problem.

[jochem 0]

I lowered the rad by fixing two new mounting points against the front of the metal bar. This not only moves it down, but also creates more room between the engine and the rad. If you cut up the fan housing it still fits perfectly. The fans fit just inside the bumper.

[DJ_ManuR6 0]

Hi Jochem, do you have pics of this? i would like to see it as im planning to lowering too but im still dont know what way to follow, even when all of them seems to work fine.

 

Cheers

[Longfield 0]

if it'll help i'll take pictures tomorrow and post them.... I removed my radiator and oil cooler, had some fun with an angle grinder and just chopped away [my term], cut out really, the front member. I then made myself an L-shape template from cardboard and then today had the template cut out in 2.5mm steel. On Sunday I intend to bolt the new steel bits to the member also to the car body. I specifically chose to cut the member out that the radiator sits on and rebolt it to the frame when the new bits were made because i thought that way i could drop the radiator down vertically, not worry about an angle and just resit the radiator right onto what it already sat on in the first place.... i hope my jibberish makes sense.

[inferno 1]

makes sense, but withought looking outside now, isnt there a taper to stop the cowling sitting there like that?

[huzzer 0]

Lowered my rad this way.

 

 

I have now strengthened up the valance with a couple of diagonals at the corners. It seems to be plenty strong enough, more than before. I also have loads of room for the rad and improved airflow up into the engine bay/air filter.

 

 

Now that the rad cowling insn't structural for the bonnet catch , i've cut and drilled all the excess plastic off from it to improve air flow too.

[inferno 1]

mine looks more or less the same huzzer, but i have a brace on top holding the rad in, welded to the chassis also, the rad will have 2 fasteners and still be removable.

 

ive used the bx rax to one side and upside down to allow a side piped intercooler, a top piped cooler, or a cossie cooler with no further mods needes to upgrade the cooler

 

i have no cowling but a pair of 10 inch spal fans

Edited April 21, 2007 by inferno

[sutol 0]

I have just been out to the beast in the garage and tried to move the front sectionswith a bar. They are rigid as hell and didn't move a bit in fact I moved the car with them so I don't think that the bottom bracing piece actually does anything.

The old piece that I cut away was twisted after some damage or other and wasn't providing any strength at all.

I think that if there is no rust in the wing sections and front end in general then a small piece of tube would more than return the rigidity of the front end.

 

and that's without an engine or subframe

 

That's my opinion anyway

 

Edited April 30, 2007 by sutol

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sutol's last post I'm hoping will spurn a response based on fact NOT opinion.

 

I say this because IF this bottom member is relatively non-contributory to structural rigidity, and can be replaced perhaps by a simple bar/tube of the correct material and correctly fitted, it could make this a really, really useful mod.

 

I appreciate some won't wish to remove/cut-out this beam, and opt for the B&Q bracket and leaning approach, but if the removal of this beam is sanctioned so to speak then it'll make for so much more room for all the right reasons - working space and airflow, and most likely weight too

 

In layman's terms, is Sutol's idea safe or not? Seems to me to be the way forward.

 

Rich

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I removed it and welded brackets with nuts onto the shell, then made a bar with brackets that bolts onto the shell. Easier to get en engine in/out when I just can slide it in/out.

 

Can't see that part beeing very structural at all.

[sutol 0]

I'm just wondering that if you were to use a piece of tube with flattened ends and fixed it behind the bumper using the bumper support brackets to fix it to thus bracing the front end using the bumper support brackets as anchors if you get my drift

 

Yes, Yes that would work+++++++++++++++problem solved

 

Except where would you put radiator supports

Edited May 1, 2007 by sutol

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Except where would you put radiator supports

 

Good thinking dude. Perhaps we can put some side mount brackets on the rad? Gotta get a trip into B&Q in there somewhere . Does the rad need to be supported at the bottom? Top and sides enough???

 

Rich - all keen and excited

[jackherer 543]

Does the rad need to be supported at the bottom? Top and sides enough???

 

The rad in a mates 205 has just been hanging off two cable ties for a few years now and is fine, I don't recommend that but it gives you an idea of whats possible

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The rad in a mates 205 has just been hanging off two cable ties for a few years now and is fine, I don't recommend that but it gives you an idea of whats possible

 

Cable ties, bungees and Plastercine it is then Kieran

[sutol 0]

I have used cable ties through the cooling fins to fasten fan assemblies to rads for years with no problems.

 

Right then, drill a hole in each bumper support bracket , cut a piece of half inch tube to fit exactly between the two brackets , weld a suitable nut into each end of the tube and then, using suitable bolts, bolt the tube in tight between the bumper brackets.

Weld on two suitable brackets to support the sides of your radiator

 

Patent the idea, make a few dozen , paint them in graphite grey and sell to the punters at suitably high prices

 

Any othe problems that need solving then give us a shout

Edited May 2, 2007 by sutol

[inferno 1]

I have used cable ties through the cooling fins to fasten fan assemblies to rads for years with no problems.

 

Right then, drill a hole in each bumper support bracket , cut a piece of half inch tube to fit exactly between the two brackets , weld a suitable nut into each end of the tube and then, using suitable bolts, bolt the tube in tight between the bumper brackets.

Weld on two suitable brackets to support the sides of your radiator

 

Patent the idea, make a few dozen , paint them in graphite grey and sell to the punters at suitably high prices

 

Any othe problems that need solving then give us a shout

 

your idea happened on my thread so i now declare it my own:P

[sutol 0]

It can't be that easy, there must be a catch somewhere