Bike Itb's On Mi16

[Guest Nathanlgd]

Hiya, just a quicky. Am getting a little bored and fancy doing something with the peugeot. I've seen a few on here fitting bike throttle bodies by making a hybrid home made manifold and making good gains. Whats needed and whats the costs? I'd be very interested to hear from the lads that have already done this - experiences, does and don'ts etc?

Cheers

Oh, and of course - which are ideal bodies to go for?

[boldy205 74]

getting the carbs is not overly expensive (ebay) but the manifold isnt cheap. think a company called bogg brothers do a lot of these. i was looking into doing this but found a cheepish set of webers so not a lot of differance in price, plus you have the proper job then!

[Guest Nathanlgd]

I'm talking bike throttle bodies not carbs I've seen people make their own manifolds simply by cutting down the std Mi16 manifold and then welding part of the bike manifold to it and linking together with abit of silicone hose.

[boldy205 74]

bike throttle bodies not bike carbs yea? as in from a bike with fuel injection? cutting and rewelding the manifold is an option i suppose, cheaper if you can do it yourself.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

in the middle of this on my gti6 engine , just cut down the std manifold and mate up the tb's using hose.---

if only it was that simple .

 

i brought the wrong tb's (got a pair of a gsxr600 instead of the gsxr 750) , mine are joined as a pair instead of four individual bodies, so i have had to chop them and space them to fit the manifold (if you get gsxr750 ones they are single and are easily spaced out to fit).

 

clearance seems to be an issue between the air box and bonnet on most cars but is overcomable .

 

getting a good angle on the manifold may well help so before you go cutting one down check and double check it will work

 

posrts are pretty much the same ( mine have 38mm bores inlet side , same as the gti6 interal dia) , only thing is you will need the either have a smaller dia tube welded to the manifold or have the std one machined (i am doing it by hand with a file ) down to fit the 45mm hose that is required to connect the tb's.

you will need to fit an 8v throttle cable connector to the bike body spindle ( better throttle control i believe) and possibly extend the cable to fit .

 

si (dream weaver ) has had great results using this method on his mi (198bhp i believe) . but thanks to him i have seen a few problems coming (cheers si) , such as the butterflies going more than horizontal when on full throttle ( no throttle stop), which nearly cost him 20 bhp i think.

 

and q's just pm me and i do what i can to help.

 

just make sure you buy gsxr 750's that are fully adjustable

[205_sunderland 4]

ive just bought a 1.9mi16 on r1 throttle bodies, i havent done any of the work myself as in just iftting it into my car, i will be more than happy to get pics up soon as i pick it up, i think if i rember right the engine made 175 bhp with a 2litre xsi ecu mapped up on rollers to suit, engine in 306 at the moment but me 205 all stripped down ready for it so gunna be runnin in a month hopefully

 

regards mick

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Nathan, you need a different ecu on your car to use the bike TB's as it needs to be mappable & use a proper throttle position sensor along with various other bits that your current ecu can't / doesn't support.

 

Graham.

[damien 22 1 Cars]

done this on my gti6 - http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=63689&hl=

[Guest Nathanlgd]

Yes Graham - I am aware of that, I know that this is where the cost comes from i.e. upgrading the ecu

 

Damien - yours was the setup I was refering to above thats a good result 192Bhp!

[kman1600 0]

done this on my gti6 - http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=63689&hl=

 

Hi,

 

I've been looking with considerable interest at what you guys have done, it's very impressive.

 

I'm I right in thinking that you've used the standard injector locations on the bit of inlet that you reused and simply blanked off the injections in the bike T/Bodies therefore using them simply as throttle butterflys? Seems to make a lot of sense if that's what you've done.

 

Thanks

 

Tim

[Tidy_Andy 0]

yes thats the correct way to do things. Rather than blocking the injector holes on the bike bodies most people tend to screw in unions an link them all together with tubing and T pieces to provide a vacume for the brake servo.

[Dream Weaver 2]

I made 199bhp on my setup, engine made 180bhp before that so a 20bhp gain when fitting the bodies.

 

The basic work involved is this:

 

1. Buy some TB's, GSXR 750/1000 are good, then split them all up.

 

2. Chop down your Mi16 inlet manifold, just where the webbed bits end between each runner, and cut them at 40-42 degrees if you want the bodies to sit level like mine and avoid the bonnet, well just about

 

3. Have a machine shop sort out the mating surfaces so they are nice and flat for the TB's to but up to. If you're using the std injector position as I did, ask them to tap the bike TB injector holes so you can use them for vacuum take off.

 

4. Buy some threaded rod from B&Q and use this to bolt the bodies together to get the spacing right.

 

5. Off the bodies up to manifold, and gasp at how far out they are, then get the Dremmel out and use many many sanding disks porting the manifold so you get a nice clean interface between each body and each runner. Takes hours witha Dremmel, minutes if you can access a Die grinder

 

6. Mate bodies to manifold using 52mm ID silicon hose, and nice big fat jubillee clips from B&Q again.

 

7. Check bodies, ports etc using fingers for any problem areas, then dismantle and re-dremmel any bits that dont match.

 

8. Re fit together, add the threaded rod, and use opposing nuts to tighten them up, add the silicon joiners, tighten the jubilees and the setup is ready for bolting on. For the vacuum ports on the btm of the TBs, I just connected them all together, then used the last one to connect to the std fuel pressure regulator.

 

9. Bolt onto head and then start work on the linkages. They wont meet, so I just bent the arms over for each TB until they did works fine.

 

10. Fit the std fuel rail and injectors in place, and you should have working bodies that all work together.

 

11. You will need a stronger linkage arm spring on the first body nearest the throttle cable though, or the others wont turn in unison.

 

12. Buy some hosetails to fit into the tb injector holes, and use these to connect up to the brake servo use 2 if possible. I used a third hole to provide sunroof vacuum, and blanked the 4th off.

 

13. Connect up your throttle cable using a Weber cable adjuster, and make sure you add the std throttle stop, or make your own.

 

14. Buy some Weber trumpets and shorten them these fit into the tbs with a rubber mallet and seem to have stayed put on mine.

 

15. If youre using a proper ITG filter, buy a blank baseplate and cut the holes to fit Mine had gaps, so I used a Rice Crispies box to make some templates which were siliconed around the tbs/baseplate I then added some jubilee clips over this area which butted the basplate up against the tb bodies, and sealed them.

 

16. Trumpets then fit with filter over them.

 

17. Wire everything up injectors, tps, air temp, ecu etc then marvel at the nosie it all makes.

 

18. Ensure you have proper travel on your bodies as well, or youll lose power as Pete says.

 

Click my project gallery in my sig for more pictures.

[Dream Weaver 2]

As for cost, mine cost me about £450 all in including consumables, filter, trumpets etc.

 

Oh, and you need to lower your rad by about 3-4" as well - cost me £10 to do from B&Q

[Guest Nathanlgd]

Nice one! great reply!

Maybe sticky this or stick it into a guide or somethin 'cos its bound to be asked in the future

[Jer309GTi 3]

Does it matter what GSXR 750/1000 bodies you use? I've seen you get different ones called K2 and K5 amongst others. Does this K number mean anything?

[Guest Nathanlgd]

Yeah - the K numbers are basicly the year the bike was/is. I.E. the latest gixxer is the K6. Undoubtably there will be differences from year to year so it would be a good idea for someone to suggest the better year or years of manufacture to go for.

[Dream Weaver 2]

The later model years had 2 sets of butterfly's in each body which works fine on a bike, but not on an Mi, so you have to remove the secondary valves, and weld the holes up.

 

Better to go for an older model setup, i think mine were from a 1999 bike.

 

As for a guide, I have started writing a full guide with pics for the main site, but it may take me some time to complete.

[Rippthrough 98]

The later model years had 2 sets of butterfly's in each body which works fine on a bike, but not on an Mi, so you have to remove the secondary valves, and weld the holes up.

 

Better to go for an older model setup, i think mine were from a 1999 bike.

 

As for a guide, I have started writing a full guide with pics for the main site, but it may take me some time to complete.

 

Works fine on an Mi so long as you can set it up with your ECU

[Dream Weaver 2]

Its apparently a nightmare to setup with the ECU though, and not worth the hassle

[Rippthrough 98]

Its apparently a nightmare to setup with the ECU though, and not worth the hassle

 

It's another reference table to map up and it takes quite a while, but you can get a nice gain low down for your trouble.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As this mod is something I will do in the near future, please enlighten me as to the ECU implications which haven't been mentioned yet in this thread.

 

What I mean is:

 

1) Do you have to buy/fit an aftermarket, mappable ECU? I know of Emerald and even the type/brand PeterT recommends and would like an idea of cost please.

 

2) My friend who is part of the VW tuning fraternity has mentioned I believe an E-Prom chip, which I understand invloves the standard ECU's 'main chip' (?) being replaced basically with one that can be mapped, by downloading the factory map and enabling it to be altered/tuned. Equally if this is an option, how much wonga?

 

For me and perhaps others this would help give an overall picture of the bike body/TB mod, covering all aspects and perhaps make it the reference article thanks to the great efforts of Dreamy boy and the experienced comments of others.

 

Thanks

 

Rich

Edited January 24, 2007 by DrSarty

[Guest Nathanlgd]

I don't think its possible to simply replace the eprom chip in the std Mi16 ecu to allow the use of individual throttle bodies - partly because the std ecu needs an air flow meter.

An after market ecu is the ony way to go as for as I'm aware but saying that - didn't someone mention that they are running bike throttle bodies and are using a "chipped" 306 xsi ecu?!

An emerald ecu is around £400 - £500 I think, someone who has one will give a more accurate price I'm sure. The Ecu is the most costly part of this upgrade/mod.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

I don't think its possible to simply replace the eprom chip in the std Mi16 ecu to allow the use of individual throttle bodies - partly because the std ecu needs an air flow meter.

An after market ecu is the ony way to go as for as I'm aware but saying that - didn't someone mention that they are running bike throttle bodies and are using a "chipped" 306 xsi ecu?!

An emerald ecu is around £400 - £500 I think, someone who has one will give a more accurate price I'm sure. The Ecu is the most costly part of this upgrade/mod.

 

i plan on using the emerald on mine , but i think they have just brought a new one out , the older version is 450 plus vat i think and yes you are right this is the most expensive part of the project (so far) .

 

my tbs had two sets of butterflies k4/k5 i think , i just removed the second set and tapped and filled the holes.

[welshpug 1,627]

I don't think its possible to simply replace the eprom chip in the std Mi16 ecu to allow the use of individual throttle bodies - partly because the std ecu needs an air flow meter.

 

thats only the case with 1905 Mi16 management, anything from the 2.0 on could run throttle bodies I guess, I know damien has Bike bodies on his GTI6 and had the original ecu remapped has he not?

[Discostu 6]

I should imagine it would depend on whether you are using the original injectors or not?

 

I have another question... I'v offered tb's up against my Mi and the top engine mount appears to be in the way. How do u get around this, does it need to be modified or does the skinnier version from the 2.0 fit?