Oil Pressure Readings

[Livelee 0]

I'm running a mi16 in a 309 using the standard guage. The oil pressure guage has always gone to max when the engine turns on and i've never really noticed it move. I'm not mechanically minded but the previous owner said a stronger spring had been put on the pump (?) and this is why the guage always read max.

 

Any way i've recently fitted an oil cooler and today I replaced the ignition system. On testing the car I noticed the pressure guage would drop from max to about 75% when the revs were 6k+. Is this anything to be concerned about?

 

Many Thanks

 

Dan

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

sounds like your gauge is not accurate atall.

 

When starting from cold it should read near maximum although i wouldnt have thought it would read right the way round. As the engine heats up the pressure will drop, untill it is very near the minimum at idle when up to full temperature. When revving the pressure should increase substantially to past the half way mark. (all this going by pug guages and a 1.9 in what i hope is healthy condition)

[Jonmurgie 2]

The dash gauges are well known for being vauge and inacurate. I know of very few 205/309's that run at the full max on the gauge though so find that a little odd in itself.

 

If your really worried then I would recomend fitting an aftermarket gauge. A mechanical Mocal gauge with pipe and takeoff form Melin is under £50 and well worth it IMO

[Livelee 0]

Yes, I think that will be purchased. Do you have a link for merlin?

 

Edit, is this them? http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/advanced...ds=oil+pressure

 

What do I buy from there and how do I fit the sender?

 

Cheers

 

Dan

Edited October 20, 2006 by Livelee

[Jonmurgie 2]

I bought this Mocal gauge as it's only £23.75 + VAT:

 

It's on their site here: http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/INSTRUME...oduct_info.html

 

Then you need the adaptor and take off pictured here:

 

And also the necessary pipe. Best thing is to just call Merlin up and tell them what it's for and they can advise you on the correct fittings. I can't recall exaclty what thread etc. the bits were as the invoice is at the office so I can check that on Monday if you like. But Merlin are top guys, your welcome to say Jon from Maximum Designs recommended them and that gauge, they all know me there now

[Livelee 0]

Perfect, thank you Jon. I'll give them a call today.

[Livelee 0]

Just got off the phone. What a decent bloke.

 

Went for this in the end:

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/INSTRUME...oduct_info.html

 

Thanks Jon, I mentioned your name and he said it would be an extra 5%

 

 

[boombang 2]

Its my old car - I miss her so much, especially as since selling still have only driven the replacement (POS!) on and off trailers

 

It certainly did have the "grp A" oil pump spring when sold.

 

The sender in there worked more like an on/off switch than giving a full reading and certainly never dropped from the top in all the time I ran that spec.

 

Hope that the oil cooler hasn't dropped the pressure off too much - so long as you still get a steady 4 bar its certainly nothing to worry about.

 

Above all I hope you're enjoying the car - I heard that the head gasket went but you got a good few trackdays out of it beforehand?

 

Also was told that the "rattle" was nothing more than a worn valve guide too?

 

As said hope she's doing you well - it was a very big mistake selling her and should've bought this other one, swapped all the bits over to that and sold the remaining bits off as spares.

 

We live an learn eh

[boombang 2]

So many questions now come to mind about what you've done to her!

 

Have you done anything with the holes in the tailgate or still covered with tape? I actually have a red phase 2 tailgate at my house you can have for nothing if you are up this way again in the near future.

 

What more has been done or is it still similar to how you bought it?

[Livelee 0]

Sorry that you're missing her mate. If I ever come to sell it i'll let you know.

 

Things i've done....

 

307 brakes.

205TD rad.

Oil cooler.

Head gasket.

Strut brace.

Slick tyres.

Ignition system - can you look at my other thread in here re: ignition amp.

Drilled front bumper for better air flow and grill removed - http://www.islandpcservices.co.uk/dan/pug/front2.jpg

Front spots removed, i'll drill these out and add some tubing for front brake cooling.

 

Yes, the tape is still over the holes in the tailgate. The rattle, yes Neal said it was the valve guides. I still think it's loud and harsh but i've put up with it this long so i'm not worried.

 

I've done a few track days this year and i'm going to Bedford on 2nd December. Also won some local autotests.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Livelee

[boombang 2]

Sounds like you're having some fun!

 

That engine was a real screamer

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

Whats that pod your using Jon?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Am I right in saying that when you turn the ignition on and fire up the engine the pressure gauge goes to the top and stays there the whole time you are driving???

 

If it does, I would be inclined to say your oil pressure gauge wire and the low oil pressure light wires are on the wrong way around........

 

Even with a high pressure spring the gauge shouldnt go to the end of the scale.

 

Maxi

[Livelee 0]

Yep, that's exactly what happens*. boombang said it was always like that as well. The pressure light comes on with the ignition and goes out when the car starts. I guess this is normal as well?

 

My Mocal gauge arrived yesterday and when it's fitted i'll post a reply saying what it shows.

 

*Excpet now it drops from Max to about 75% between 6k and 7krpm

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

My 2.0 8v on start up is max and gradually drops to around 75% when warm at idle. Ive got the noraml 1.9 sender adapted to fit the 2.0 block. Id justy assume as long as youve got oil pressure you'd be OK, its when you have none you need to be concerned. However totally maxed is concerning as it could indsicate pressure blowing past the rings from the chambers but id suspect other symptons to be present in this case.

[boombang 2]

The sender on that car died - it was replaced with the only one we had which seemed to work on and off.

 

It is possible Maxi is right and I put them the wrong way round though so worth a check!

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

I've got a group N spring in my 8v & it reads above maximum on the standard guage when cold & drops to the 3/4's once its warm under normal running at idle but only drops to midway when its properly hot after a track session.

 

Graham.

[Livelee 0]

Well the leads were around the right way. As you look at the car from the front, gauge on the right and light on the left.

 

I've not finished fitting the new gauge yet as it started raining heavily 1/2 way through the job. When the cylinders started filling up with water I thought it would be wise to call it a day.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Livelee

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Like Graham said, my Mi16 with group A spring read max on cold start up but drops as it warms up to peak at 6bar.

[Livelee 0]

Thought I better update this thread. For anybody who can offer up a better tale of woe for a simple fitting of an oil prerssure gauge then you have my deepest heart felt sympathies.

 

Where to begin, it's a long story and i'm sure you'll all laugh.

 

OK when I left you the car had the inlet off and it started raining so I gave up. Back at the weekend to continue. 1st problem was the hole in the block where the original sender was cracked underneath and my new sender just slipped in and out of the block. We tapped it out and then loctighted a stud in. The sender then went in, via an adaptor, where the original pressure warning sender was.

 

For some reason I had only been supplied with a short oil tube to go from the sender to the gauge. Rather than do the sensible thing and wait I decided it would be fine if it could go pretty straight from the sender to the gauge. The car is a track car so keeping it nice is not an issue. Initially I drilled a few holes in the top of the dash trying to find a sensible route through. Nothing could be found so I decided it would be easier if the dash could be pulled forward 1/2 an inch then the tube could comeup right behind it. The key was in the ignition and while bringing the dash forward it must have caught the key. The key snapped off in the ignition.

 

Much swearing and I gave up for the day.

 

Started early...using a dremmel on the bottom of the barrel I wore the removal pins down so the barrel could be removed. I got the key out but my spare key would not work in the barrel. I gave up with that at this point and concentrated on the car again. I got the oil pipe to the gauge (with plenty of slack) put the dash back(ish) and then put the car back together. I used a screw driver to turn the ignition switch to start the car. It turned over but would not fire. Got out to check connections and noticed smoke coming off the main loom, the outer plastic was melting. Disconnected the battery, back in the car and it was full of smoke. The car had an immobiliser, that was red hot and all the leads coming out of it had melted.

 

Much, more, swearing and I gave up for the day.

 

Called an auto electrician in the week and he came out last weekend. He cut the immobiliser out, wired in a switch for the ignition and push button start. Also wired the started direct to the button rather than via whatever it used to use. Time to test it...Starter motor just spins and spins it wont "throw in". Hit it with a hammer and still no luck. Everything off again to remove the starter. On the bench just connected to a battery it is engaging but it's weak so I order a new one.

 

Mild swearing and I gave up for the day.

 

New starter arrived this morning. I fitted it at lunchtime. Initially I just connected it all up and checked the engine turned over, all fine. So I then did all the connections properly...but forgot to disconnect the battery. I wear a ring on my right hand and it must have been touching the spanner that I was using to do up the live terminal. My ring touched the engine, earthing it, and then with a big spark things started to hurt. The ring has 2 chunks missing from it, 1 where it touched the block and another where it was touching the spanner. My Finger has a blister all around the bottom edge. f*** me it hurt.

 

Anyway, with everything done up and it place I checked it all again, all fine. I put the car back together, inlet, etc...Tried it all again and the car started 1st time. Perfect. A fuel hose was leaking slightly so I replaced the jubilee clip and started it again, all fine. I was checking over the car for leaks around the oil gauge and sender when I heard the starter motor engage. About 30 seconds later it was bellowing smoke before it gave up. Net result is the starter motor is f***ed (again). So it's another take the whole car apart to remove it again. Back to Lucas who confirmed it's buggered and they will have another one tomorrow. FOC.

 

Immense swearing and I gave up for the day. Stay tuned for another instalment, tomorrow, probably.

 

Oh...not forgetting the oil pressure. When the car was running for the 5 or so mins on tick over. It was at 100 LB/0" (max on the gauge) after it started and then dropped down to 80 as the car was warming. As I revved the engine it returned to 100.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Livelee

[PumaRacing 1]

Sounds to me like someone has done some serious buggering about with the oil pump relief valve. Perhaps they've squeezed a suspension spring in there somehow or maybe it's just jammed in the closed position. Time to rip the sump off and have a look though I think.

[Livelee 0]

Sounds to me like someone has done some serious buggering about with the oil pump relief valve. Perhaps they've squeezed a suspension spring in there somehow or maybe it's just jammed in the closed position. Time to rip the sump off and have a look though I think.

 

Did you read my last post?

 

Once it is working i'm not touching it again. Do the readings the new mechanical gauge is giving sound wrong then?

[Livelee 0]

New started fited and all is well.

 

Gauge drops down to 22(ish) psi when the engine is hot. I think the new warning light I got had 1.8bar stamped on it as at idle the warning and stop light comes on. A tiny bit of revs causes the pressue to incease and the light to go out. At max revs the gauge reads 100(ish) psi.

 

Does that all sound normal?

[Livelee 0]

New started fited and all is well.

 

Gauge drops down to 22(ish) psi when the engine is hot. I think the new warning light I got had 1.8bar stamped on it as at idle the warning and stop light comes on. A tiny bit of revs causes the pressue to incease and the light to go out. At max revs the gauge reads 100(ish) psi.

 

Does that all sound normal?

 

Anybody?

 

Cheers

 

Dan

[jonand 0]

Anybody?

 

Cheers

 

Dan

 

Just a cautionary word - I ran my Mi with a heavy (allegedly group A) spring which gave similarly high pressure readings on the gauge. When loading the car onto its trailer, it managed to deposit its oil on the drive - on further investigation it had blown the oil filter sealing ring out of its housing

 

Good Luck

Jon

 

PS I am using a standard spring now (on my S16 engine) which I believe is the same as the original group A spring anyway.