Gti6 Conversion Begins

[jonnie205 1]

Yes you will need an mi16 clutch, the mi and gti6 flywheels are the same. If you decide to use 6 speed then you can either get a cable made up with 306 box and end and 205 pedal end or swap clutch arm to be3 and then run mi clutch. Your gear lever will be fine for either box

[Garry 1]

I run a six speed box on mine and I would thoroughly recomend it:

 

Long 1st for launching

2nd to 5th very close up 130 mph

6th on top for comfortable cruising to the track. I got an average 36mpg driving at 90 all the way back from the 'ring.

 

If you have the 6 speed BUD I would use it, the lock isn't that bad you just learn to either go left or prep the car to go right by turning in early.

 

I haven't had any problems on circuits yet, Cadwell has a tight right hander which is fine.

One problem to bear in mind is that it is hard to catch a massive slide, as you run out of lock. This has caught me out in the snow before!

[Garry 1]

Out of the choice of the gti6 box and the 1.6 box. Deffinatly a 1.6 box. the gti6 box is a joke once i had seen one in action.

 

Alastair

 

Was that my car Alastair?

[ada205 2]

I run a six speed box on mine and I would thoroughly recomend it:

 

Long 1st for launching

2nd to 5th very close up 130 mph

6th on top for comfortable cruising to the track. I got an average 36mpg driving at 90 all the way back from the 'ring.

I would totally agree with that. Only people i hear slate them are people who have'nt used them on on a regular basis, or never driven a 205 with one at all.

 

Also, i find Garry's standing quarter time in his sig interesting, as i know of a gti6 engined 205 that run's very well on jenvey tb's, but with a 1.6 box, and that car's quarter is almost identical to Garry's.

Edited October 21, 2006 by ada205

[welshpug 1,622]

I'm going to be able to compare the differences between Mi gearing and 6sp gearing in a few months, as I have aquired a 6sp box to go in my 405.

 

I have studied the ratio's and from what i've gathered it might not be as quick off the line (but it might be, unsure yet) and revs will be a bit lower in top, pretty good for motorway driving as it does rev a bit too high for my liking.

 

basically 1st and 2nd are marginally taller, 3rd identical, 4th and 5th lower and 6th is actually taller by 3-400 odd rpm IIRC.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I would totally agree with that. Only people i hear slate them are people who have'nt used them on on a regular basis, or never driven a 205 with one at all.

 

Also, i find Garry's standing quarter time in his sig interesting, as i know of a gti6 engined 205 that run's very well on jenvey tb's, but with a 1.6 box, and that car's quarter is almost identical to Garry's.

 

 

Ive run all the boxes avaliable apart from a diesel on a variation of engines and I ran a six speed for at least a year on my mi. I went back to a 5 speed 1600 box, and the car was quicker in EVERY area, apart from obviously top end. The 6 box you spend way too much time changing gear and it dosent draw the car very far along the road relative to RPM. Thats my own experience and from a performance point of view, I would always advise people to stay way away from them. Steering lock isnt an issue on the plus side.

 

The mi16 box IS the box to use for the XU10J4RS conversion.

 

Maxi

[Daxed 7]

I would totally agree with that. Only people i hear slate them are people who have'nt used them on on a regular basis, or never driven a 205 with one at all.

 

I don't agree with that ada, I have driven a GTI-6 205 for several months with the 6 speed fitted and whilst finding the ratios ok, I just found the lack of R/H lock a total pain. In most day-to-day situations it was ok, but if, for whatever reason other traffic forced you slightly off line at a T-junction, total bastard.

 

Multi-storey car parks could be a nuisance too.

 

I dont totally slate it, but sure wont be using it in the cars next incarnation (6-speed box available here for anyone that fancies a go).

 

Will probably try the 1.6 next as have a couple of them but am keen to get my hands on an MI16.

[welshpug 1,622]

just a random thought but would it be possible to shift the engine over to the right and inch or so (as there is a bit of space down the r/h side), utilising 309 lower arms and l/h shaft, with 205 r/h shaft?

therefore negating the lack of lock argument?

[roland rat 11]

think you all may have over looked one thing lads.how about using a xsara vts 5 speed box? or am i thinking crazy? surely as the xsara vts lump is the same as the gti 6 this would be perfect as its not as wide as the gti 6 box.im sure the xsara is ever so slightly quicker to 60 than the gti 6 also?

Edited October 21, 2006 by roland rat

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

think you all may have over looked one thing lads.how about using a xsara vts 5 speed box? or am i thinking crazy? surely as the xsara vts lump is the same as the gti 6 this would be perfect as its not as wide as the gti 6 box.im sure the xsara is ever so slightly quicker to 60 than the gti 6 also?

 

 

Im going out on a whim here as I never normally post something I dont know, but im sure someone said the ratios are exactly the same as a late mi box...... I might be 100% wrong though, you have been warned!

 

Maxi

[Garry 1]

think you all may have over looked one thing lads.how about using a xsara vts 5 speed box? or am i thinking crazy? surely as the xsara vts lump is the same as the gti 6 this would be perfect as its not as wide as the gti 6 box.im sure the xsara is ever so slightly quicker to 60 than the gti 6 also?

 

Second all of the above.

 

My brother runs a Xsara VTS and the ratios are very good, and yes the Xsara gives both better performance figures and lap times than the 306. I think it may be due to the time spent off power changing gear Vs the benefit of the closer ratios.

 

What BUD could do is give the 6 speed a go, as he already has one and see how he gets on, then flog it and try and find a VTS/Mi box if he doesn't like it.

[ada205 2]

I don't agree with that ada, I have driven a GTI-6 205 for several months with the 6 speed fitted and whilst finding the ratios ok, I just found the lack of R/H lock a total pain. In most day-to-day situations it was ok, but if, for whatever reason other traffic forced you slightly off line at a T-junction, total bastard.

 

Multi-storey car parks could be a nuisance too.

 

I dont totally slate it, but sure wont be using it in the cars next incarnation (6-speed box available here for anyone that fancies a go).

 

Will probably try the 1.6 next as have a couple of them but am keen to get my hands on an MI16.

Fair enough mate, like i say in my first post in this thread, the lack of lock has made me look a prat on a few occasions, but i can usually avoid such cocks up's now i've got use to things.

 

This is always gonna be one of those subjects where everyone has different views and preferences, thing is, if I had read nothing but negative views on the 6 speeds and decided not to use one myself, i would have missed out on what has become for me, the best 205 i've ever driven. I've never owned nothing but 205's, my first ever car, oh so many years back now, was a gti, and my last car will be a gti, and i can honestly say my current one is the best driving experience i've ever had in a 205, and i certainly put a lot of that down to the box.

 

Just my opinion, and obviously there's many other factors in what makes a car pleasurable to drive, but if anyone has the time, ability and money, then they should try as many box's as poss, and you never know, you may just prefer the one that get's you to 130 more than quick enough using the first 5 cogs, give's you those glorious moments of out running much more expensive machinery, great fuel econemy, and every so often, makes you look a complete tit trying to park

 

Oh, and Daxed, if you still have that spare box lying around in a month or two, I'll be very interested in buying it off you .

Edited October 22, 2006 by ada205

[whizzer71 0]

Hey guys,just thought I would add my opinion on the subject,I had a ZX 16V box on my Gti6 powered 205 to start with and Im told that its the same as the Mi unit,My friend was running a Gti 6 engined 205 also at the same time,only difference being that he had the 6 speed unit in his,His car was way quicker than mine side by side in a straight line !.

I have since fitted a six speed unit in mine along with a quaife diff and he has since fitted a pair of kent regrinds and a 5 speed box from a Xsara Vts also with a quaife and now Mine has the initial edge upto about 80Mph and then his starts winding on and leaving mine behind !.

Im now gonna get a pair of Cat cams and find myself a Vts box,Seems like the best solution,although I think that the ratios arent too different from the 1.9 gti 5 speed box,Not too sure but I think its only the 5th gear that maybe marginally different ?.

I love the six speed box both from the way it makes the car perform and the novolty value but I live in a tiny Kentish Town and the lack of Lock IS an issue for me ,even old ladies stand there shaking their heads at my lack of ability to make tight turns,I just smile politely !

 

Tris

 

[Daxed 7]

Good post ada.

 

Will probably be hanging onto the box just in case no other i try suits the car better. I sure hope one does though as i find the problems you have had and that whizzer has just mentioned a total pain in the behind.

[Dixon 1]

Just a note, I have a 5sp Xsara VTS box for sale if it helps anyone...

[whizzer71 0]

I just speak from experience,although having said that whenever I go anywhere with the car like to the pod or Silverstone its no problem at all !

 

Cheers

 

Tris

 

[BuD 0]

plenty of food for thought there!

 

I will probably fit the gti6 box first and see how I go although I am changing my mind often over this!

[pj838 0]

Hows the project going mate any news? Really interested in this as hoping to do my own 6-engine conversion soon-ish

[BuD 0]

Sorry pj838 I did not see the reply to this thread.

 

I have finally now bought a 205 to put the engine into and also bought an mi16 gearbox as this is what I have decided on using now.

 

I am not 100% sure on what type of clutch and clutch cable I need to use this box with my 205. I think I need to buy a 2.0 mi16 clutch (which is pull type?) but then I cant use the 205 cable from the 1.9 BE3 box because this is push type?

 

Also I have a good gti6 clutch but the release bearing is different, could I possibly use this or would that mean swapping the arm that acts on the bearing?

 

 

 

I also have 1.9 BE3 from the 205 but I dont think I need anything from this.

 

EDIT: just to clarify this is to go on a gti6 engine fitted to a 205

Edited May 25, 2007 by BuD

[whizzer71 0]

Hi mate,I kept the 6 Flywheel/clutch assy and just adapted a std late type clutch cable to work the reverse pull type clutch system,works lovely and smooth not heavy or anything like that.

I just went to the local scrap yard and chopped up a couple of cables and robbed the plastic ends from them (the bit that fits in the actuator arm) ,thread the bar on the end of the cable up a bit further and then trim it back otherwise it gets scarily close to the rad.

I have a spare 6' actuator arm if you need it.

Pm me and Ill give you my mobile No.

 

Tris

 

Edited May 28, 2007 by whizzer71

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Bud, whatever box you choose to use you will need to swap the selector arm for a 205 one on either box.

 

Graham.

[BuD 0]

Thanks for the replies guys, its really helped.

 

I think I have finally sussed it out!

 

I have 2 options:

 

* Gti6 or 2.0 mi16 pull type clutch, using arm off 405\306 box and use a custom cable

* 1.9 mi16 push type clutch, using arm off 205 be3 box and use standard cable.

 

I think I will go for option 2 as I dont want to have to muck about with custom cables.

 

whizzer71: Did you use the gti6 oil cooler (water cooled) or did you use something off a 205 (water or air variant)? Also how did you do the coolant hoses?

[Alastairh 47]

Option 2 deffinatly mate. Just makes life alot easier!

[whizzer71 0]

Hi fella,use the reverse pull clutch,its far superior and the cable isnt rocket science either !,I removed the modine type cooler as it makes the engine run a hell of alot hotter when u get stuck in traffic,I now have a remote to air type cooler with an oil stat fitted,I also fitted a new all alloy Rad when I did the conversion,they're avail on E-bay.

As for the coolant hoses you can either fit a late Mi 2ltr cast engine water manifold (the one that bolts to the back of the block at the bottom nr the water pump) and that allows you to connect everything as std or use a T piece in the hose between expansion tank and rear of block/heater hose from rear of cylinder head,Ill post some pics for you later.

 

Any other Q's drop us a line.

 

 

Tristan