Supercharging/turbocharging

[jacobs53 0]

yeah the turbocharger and supercharger are linked the incorrect way around.

 

For maximum performance across the power band, include a inlet manifold that contains two inlet ports, and supply each one to the supercharger and turbocharger. Using solinoids to shut of each port when a pre-determined amount of boost is reached so that the pressure from each is not wasted.

 

Forget the electro-magnetic clutch idea on the supercharger, just tap in a dump valve into the superchargers boost pipe to open as soon as the turbocharger starts to kick in. You can't run both toegther otherwise each charger will equalize in pressure.... i.e. 1 bar of pressure from supercharger and 1.2 bar of turbocharged pressure will not equal 2.2bar.. but only 1.2bar. This is beacsue the turbocharger will push compressed air back down to the supercharger causing it to stall in operation.

 

I think its a great project, but agree with puglife shame on a FWD vehicle. A supercharger on a mi16 set up correctly will probabily just be as fast as the combination of both, due to the lack of traction! But fair play for achieving what you have!

 

lee

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

[hi, thanks for all your comments, i will try and answer some of them.

I have to go to work right now, so i will do it tomorrow.

cheers,

cyman

[Guest superpug]

These are some old photos of my supercharged mi which was origanaly converted by ecosse it also has the opcon spercharger thing is it rearly ever see the light of day as i just dont get any time for it a the moment got 245 bhp when mapped a emerald back in june but the inlet temps were realy high as i didnt have a cooler then.

 

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/su...grill205178.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/su...grill205177.jpg

Edited October 2, 2006 by superpug

[M@tt 77]

superpug - what inlet manifold are you running there?

[TEKNOPUG 3]

I think that it would be better to have seperate inlets for the S/C and turbo. I can see the benefit of using the S/C to boost up a large turbo and effectively getting the turbo spinning at low revs, as opposed to having to wait for higher revs to produce enough energy to spin the turbo. You would then be able to use a large turbo at big boost without a lot of lag.

 

However, I would think that it would be better to use the s/c via a solenoid until it starts to run out of puff at higher revs and the turbo takes over. A larger turbo could be used as by the time the s/c finished you would be in high enough revs for the turbo to be boosting with little lag.

 

Maybe in practice there would be little difference between the two. As said though, it's not going to produce anymore max power than just using the turbo alone but will reduce lag and increase the usable power range.

[tom_m 0]

true, but any more powerful blower blowing through a less powerful one is going to induce compressor stall in the less powerful one and vice versa and will eventually become a resriction instead of a useful component.

 

i don't see any form of blow off valve in there, but its possible the superchager has an internal bypass???

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

hi, iv'e posted some more photo's of the car.

I will try later to put some words together to explain why and what i have done.

cyman.

[Guest superpug]

superpug - what inlet manifold are you running there?

 

Its the standard inlet manifold cut down then fabricated it also uses the standard throttle body with the addition of a throttle pot.

[Martin@PRD 0]

Heres some info for you, this is going back a few years now though

 

 

Article:

 

I want to know why you cannot combine a turbo charger with a supercharger? Has it ever been tried before to your knowledge? Robert Lawndale, CA.

 

Known as twinchargers, the Lancia rally cars employed both a turbo and a supercharger. HKS even offered an upgrade for the Toyota MR2 with a supercharger-into-turbo kit. Nissan introduced a twincharged car, the front wheel drive March. The March (Nissan Micra in Europe) was originally offered in 1982 and is still around today in Japan and Europe, where there is also a Nismo version with intake, exhaust, suspension, and Rays rims (they get all the tasty cars). A turbo model was introduced in 1985, but the twincharged version was available from 1989-1992 and only sold in Japan and Malaysia. The March Super Turbo version had an inline 4 electronically fuel-injected 930cc single overhead cam turbo and supercharged engine, the MA09ERT. Only 110 hp at stock 0.7 bars of boost (about 10.3 psi), it was still practical to almost double the boost to get an extra 20-30 hp. At only 1700 pounds, the Super Turbo was capable of 0-60 in only 7.5 seconds. Is twincharging possible? Yes. Likely to see on a production car or cost effective? Not usually. It's hard enough trying to fit one forced induction system in an engine bay that trying to get two in a car already on the market would probably take some Crisco, a sledge hammer, and some funky body work. You can produce a kit where the turbo output powers the supercharger or vice versa. Powering a supercharger into a turbo takes advantage of low end spool since the supercharger is powered off the crank and doesn't have as much lag as larger turbos typically do. The supercharger blows air facing the turbo. However at high rpm, the turbo will be flowing too much air and there is a lot of backpressure, creating a vacuum. You would either have to disengage the supercharger as the turbo spooled up or add an outside source of air to power the turbo. Roots blowers, although not too efficient at high rpm, are cheaper and work well at low rpm, making it a most cost effective option. A variable speed centrifugal supercharger is a slightly pricier option as well. Use a higher boost setting in the low end and a low boost setting on the top end to let the turbo take over. Powering a turbo into a supercharger fools the turbo into thinking the engine is a greater displacement, but power is consumed by the spooled up supercharger and SC's are usually less efficient compressors than turbos. One easier option (both mechanically and on your wallet) is to use nitrous oxide to power a large, laggy turbo in the bottom end.

 

anther artical

 

 

988, Nissan launched a limited 10,000 unit run of their homologated Nissan 1989March Superturbo (EK10GFR/GAR). Both this and the 1988 March Superturbo R/March R (EK10FR) (see below) featured the same highly advanced sequential compound charged (supercharger plus turbocharger) engine in an all-aluminium straight-4 930 cc 8-valve 4 cylinder Nissan MA MA09ERT unit that produced 110 PS JIS (81 kW/108 hp) at 6400 rpm. This car came with either a 3-speed automatic or 5-speed manual gearbox with viscous limited slip differential, as well as options such as air conditioned and electric mirrors. The March Superturbo still holds the crown for the fastest production March in Nissan's history, with factory performance figures of 7.7 seconds to go from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) and 15.5 seconds to run a quarter mile. Highspeed is 180 Km/h (112 mph).

 

 

Spec. (740KG)

 

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/id/?id=132715

[dee205 3]

i don't see any form of blow off valve in there, but its possible the superchager has an internal bypass???

 

No blow off valve on a supercharger as it's turned by the engine so it's not gonna try and push more air in when you let off the go pedal. The turbo is feeding the supercharger and I guess there should be some kind of BOV unless the pressure coming off throttle is lessened by the length of the intake system...

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

more pic's of the car.

cyman

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

link

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/cymancarbon/?

cyman

[welshpug 1,627]

Dont know about any other superchargers but quite a few of the Eaton range have electronic clutches and bypass valves integrated.

[Martin@PRD 0]

oh my goodness loads of thought, time and money spend on this, why didnt you go rwd???

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

my original plan was to spaceframe the 205 and go the mid engine route.

i had a honda v6 3lr and a porsche g50 transaxle to slot into the back.

but after working out the costing and the amount of room i needed to do the project i decided to stick with the mi16 setup.

3ltr v6 twin turbo in a 205 would have been interesting !!!.

cyman.

[veloce200 3]

my original plan was to spaceframe the 205 and go the mid engine route.

i had a honda v6 3lr and a porsche g50 transaxle to slot into the back.

but after working out the costing and the amount of room i needed to do the project i decided to stick with the mi16 setup.

3ltr v6 twin turbo in a 205 would have been interesting !!!.

cyman.

 

can you expand on the plumbing - does seem very wrong

[cyman 1 1 Cars]

a few more pic's

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/cymancarbon/?

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

i quite like that gearchange lever .

[jackherer 543]

its different, thats for sure!

 

the engineering looks top notch, theres clearly a lot of time, effort and money gone into that.