Do I Need A Remap Before Tracking It ?

[smckeown 1]

Hi all,

 

As most of you know about my saga, i'm having the head rebuilt but with a hotter cam this time. My question is do i absolutely need a touch-up re-map to gain max performance or to make it safe ? Steve Greenauld hwo mapped it recently is booked up. So i need a map to make it safe I could try mechanics as an alternative. I'm not sure getting another person to fine tune the map is a good idea, especially as I woulnt be able to compare the results back to back. So if it meant I needed it for safety purposes i'll go that route, otherwise i'll put up with the sub-optimal until Steve is available

 

cheers

sean

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Ideal world would be a re-map before tracking it imo but how much hotter is the new cam to the old one?

 

If the differences are only small then it could be Ok but its a risk.

 

Graham.

[hengti 2]

surprised you're asking to be honest

 

you've had some cack luck with it recently by all accounts; i guess it's tempting to get it out on track asap, but you know it makes sense to be sure it's set up propery before you do!

[phatgti 0]

get it done, don't f*ck about - it'll play silly buggers with your midrange as a minimum.

[smckeown 1]

It's moving from 340 to 343 below:

 

[smckeown 1]

I will also take the opportunityto get it mapped on the new v-power 99 ROM fuel, vs. the 97 ron it was mapped first time. So with the extra RON fuel, hotter cam and shorter trumpets (may even have time to play with cam timing) i'm hoping for a few more horses

Edited August 28, 2006 by smckeown

[Anthony 1,002]

I will also take the opportunityto get it mapped on the new v-power 99 ROM fuel

Is that a good idea? Just thinking that at some circuits there might not be a Shell around for miles and you'd be stuck with normal 97RON SUL if you needed to fill up mid-trackday (which if I recall you're running a chopped fuel tank and will be lucky to get half a day from it before needing fuel)

 

I'd just stick to getting it mapped on 97RON - the couple of hp or whatever you might gain just isn't worth the potential headache IMO

[smckeown 1]

yeah see your point anthony. I do have 1 25l jerry can, I might need to get another too. For far away track day's it's not too bad as the car will be trailered therefore arriving with full tank plus currently 1 jerry can.

 

I also have the option of using millers octane boost if im stuck.

 

I'd have thought if I raised compression from 11.25:1 to accomodate the wilder cam a higher octane rated fuel would help things

[petert 583]

bigger cam/more CR will definitely burn up more fuel, leaning out the existing maps. If you want to extract more hp, with the help of more CR, you'll definitely need the higher octane fuel. No point doing it otherwise. Just take a jerry can.

[veloce200 3]

yeah see your point anthony. I do have 1 25l jerry can, I might need to get another too. For far away track day's it's not too bad as the car will be trailered therefore arriving with full tank plus currently 1 jerry can.

 

I also have the option of using millers octane boost if im stuck.

 

I'd have thought if I raised compression from 11.25:1 to accomodate the wilder cam a higher octane rated fuel would help things

 

Hi Sean

 

have you thought of using Sussex Performance Centre - I used them for mine the other day - I think the rollers are very accurate. Flywheel figures certainly realistic. My std 8v put out 121 hp, 98.5 at the wheels. They are not cheap at £90 hr but I'm not surprised when you see how flash and new the RR is !

I think you will find it runs poorly without as any small changes are not well tolerated by AlphaN mapping.

 

Julian

[smighall 1]

Hi Sean

 

have you thought of using Sussex Performance Centre - I used them for mine the other day - I think the rollers are very accurate. Flywheel figures certainly realistic. My std 8v put out 121 hp, 98.5 at the wheels. They are not cheap at £90 hr but I'm not surprised when you see how flash and new the RR is !

I think you will find it runs poorly without as any small changes are not well tolerated by AlphaN mapping.

 

Julian

 

Now that's interesting, that's where i was planning taking mine to once it's all running for a bit of a tweak etc. Good to hear that somebody who has actually used them thinks they are up to it.

[Sandy 191]

The risk of running the old map with a new cam is high, VE might be improved all over the place leading to leaning out as Peter said. It's no way to treat a highly strung engine!

[smckeown 1]

bigger cam/more CR will definitely burn up more fuel, leaning out the existing maps. If you want to extract more hp, with the help of more CR, you'll definitely need the higher octane fuel. No point doing it otherwise. Just take a jerry can.

 

ok thanks all, i'l lsee what I can do. As there's only a week between when the car wil lbe ready and Anglesey, my choices for mapping is limited. Steve Greenauld goes on holiday o nthe 11th (2 days after car is ready) so little chance he can fit me in. I've emailed mikeanics to see what he's got on the saturday before.

 

The only other option I could think of, is if I cannot get it booked in and mapped, then buy an additional cam (the same as is mapped with and use on atemp basis), but would the extra compression also mean the map would be lean ?

 

Hi Sean

 

have you thought of using Sussex Performance Centre - I used them for mine the other day - I think the rollers are very accurate. Flywheel figures certainly realistic. My std 8v put out 121 hp, 98.5 at the wheels. They are not cheap at £90 hr but I'm not surprised when you see how flash and new the RR is !

I think you will find it runs poorly without as any small changes are not well tolerated by AlphaN mapping.

 

Julian

 

Was that for KMS Julian ? It would be good to find another place familiar with KMS.

[tom_m 0]

you've got the full KMS wideband set-up don't you sean? couldn't you let it 'self-map' on the new cam to get it in the right neibourhood for the new cam?

[smckeown 1]

No, only had the wideband on there initially. It was run in closed loop for a half a day around goodwood and the map was driveable but still well out. I'm not sure how effective these things are to be honest. In an ideal world it would be able to self-learn and save me mapping costs...ah well....

[SPGTi 2]

If you are driving up to Anglesey, through the Midlands give Mick at Hi-Tech Motorsport a call on 01384 561777. He is very good at mapping and pretty quick. His rates aren't too bad either.

 

Steve

[Dj_mini 7]

Does matt at qep not do any maping or does he not have the facilltys to do it?

[smckeown 1]

they are putting an engine dyno in, not ready yet tho

[smckeown 1]

Afer loads of jiggery pokery I've managed to book into Mikeanics on Friday 15th Sept. 2 days before Anglesey. yay!

 

How about this for a bit of driving...

 

Friday (leave 6am)

- Drive from home to mikeanics - 240 miles

- See the car get thrashed all day long on the rollers

- Drive back to gav's to stay night - 140 miles

 

Saturday

- Drive from Swindon to Oxfordshire to pick up the stig then up to Anglesey B&B, then get plastered that night - 260 miles

 

Sunday

- Have fun on the track

- Drive home via oxfordshire - 360 miles

 

1000 miles

 

Luckily i'm hiring a trailer and borrowing the wife's X-Trail

Edited August 30, 2006 by smckeown

[Jonmurgie 2]

That's some plan stan... good to get a bit more time on the mapping though and essential to get the best out of your car for the trackday

 

I chuckle at that fact you LOVE petef so much... I know a 'real' Stig you know

[smckeown 1]

yeah will be good to try some new trumpet lengths and swinging cam timing etc. Although must talk to QEP about new valve clearance as new cam has more lift. According to DB i used to be able to swing it 1-2 degrees

Edited August 30, 2006 by smckeown

[Dream Weaver 2]

Afer loads of jiggery pokery I've managed to book into Mikeanics on Friday 15th Sept. 2 days before Anglesey. yay!

 

How about this for a bit of driving...

 

Friday (leave 6am)

- Drive from home to mikeanics - 240 miles

- See the car get thrashed all day long on the rollers

- Drive back to gav's to stay night - 140 miles

 

Saturday

- Drive from Swindon to Oxfordshire to pick up the stig then up to Anglesey B&B, then get plastered that night - 260 miles

 

Sunday

- Have fun on the track

- Drive home via oxfordshire - 360 miles

 

1000 miles

 

Luckily i'm hiring a trailer and borrowing the wife's X-Trail

 

Good luck, I hope yours comes out of Mike's a bit better than mine did

[smckeown 1]

yeah I was thinking about that. I very nearly created a post asking if ANYONE has had a good experience there, but then I remembered charlise sav did. At least I have proof of previous power and reliability (from a map, not build perspective) so if it's not all good news after he's finished I can beat him over the head

[Dream Weaver 2]

LOL

 

It will be good to see your power figures from Mike's vs your previous figures as well to compare different RR's.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Although the spec of Sean's car will be different so maybe not 'that' comparable?!