Should I Go For Slicks?

[ashley peddle 3]

howdy

 

been thinking about a set of slicks for a while now (although wouldnt be too sure on the type i would need)

 

basically i have got to the point where the tyres i have can only handle 15-20ish minutes of abuse till they start to over heat/deform (thats eagle f1's by the way) Im after a shiney diff but at the moment funds wont allow

 

would i kill myself with slicks? obviously they would take some warming up and a lot of getting used to...

 

also - is there any risk of oil surge in an 8v running slicks?

 

and another thing someone has pointed out is that if i dont have LSD that i could munch a standard diff with slicks? any ideas?

 

ta for any info (and sorry if its in the wrong part of the forum, lol)

 

ash

Edited August 14, 2006 by ashley peddle

[Jonmurgie 2]

If your new to track days then I would stick with worn road tyres... slicks are very very unforgiving, with no warning at all before they let go!

 

15/20 minutes is more than enough to be out on track in any one session so again road tyres are ideal.

 

8v's don't suffer from oil starvation so slicks on an 8v aren't an issue, to answer your other question

[niklas 1]

A good idea might be semi-slicks (like Kumho V70A, Potenza RE540S, Yoko A048 etc), they do work a lot better than road tyres but are not as demanding on the driver as slicks. I would say like Jon, stay away from slicks until you are well experienced or you might get experiences you don't want!

 

If you're going for semi-slicks be aware that they are noticably worse when rainy than road tyres so be careful!

[Batfink 201]

slicks will not be able to be utilised to their maximum because your car setup is not designed to cope with the extra forces.

It will kill your rubber suspension mounts, your shocks are too soft etc

[ashley peddle 3]

the car has group n mounts everywhere and the shocks are koni adjustables (set to stiff)

 

im not a total novice - iv been to a few different tracks and i know the limits of the car quite well (apart from when theres gravel on the track )

 

 

 

so the general idea is no to slicks but maybe to semi-slicks?

[Dom9 2]

I'd say go for semi-slicks... Means you can still use them on the road as well!

 

They tend to be a lot more progressive, on the limit, as the others have said, and since Track days are not about out and out racing, I think you would have more fun sliding around on semi's than you would losing the car on slicks...

 

FWIW I used to run Yoko A032R SS and Dunlop D01's and they were just awesome compared to standard road tyres - great fun!

 

I don't think Kev was suggesting you or your car weren't up to slicks, but they really do challenge anything that isn't really completely solid... Any road derived suspension set up will suffer and the shell will take a battering from the extra loads...

 

The only problem is that a set of 4, new semi's can cost around teh same as a diff... My tip is to keep an eye out for used Elise fronts and scour Motorsport News and the racing parts websites for used ones... The racers tend to discard them even though they have plenty of tread left! I used to get them for about £40 per tyre, which isn't bad when they were about £100 new... I think Toyo and Kumho do even cheaper ones though!

[Batfink 201]

actually I am saying his car is not up to using slicks! No fault of the car but slicks need stuff like solid wishbone bushes, 350lb springs etc etc.

basically they need a circuit racecar and no-one on this site has one of those (bar Miles i think!)

Also you just wont be able to get the heat into the tyres as your suspension cannot push the tyres enough

 

Semi slicks are definetly what you need - though i'd suggest going for a hard compound otherwise they will wear very quickly. These will still grip like a limpit compared to road tyres - and if your car is well set up suspension wise will even be good in the wet

Edited August 14, 2006 by Batfink

[hengti 2]

really depends upon how much 'spare' cash you've got

 

i've got a set of A038s (Lotus tyres, as above) that i bought s/hand, primarily for sprinting on. they're £130 each new ... not good. A048s are much cheaper at £90ish, and, if you're prepared to switch to 14" wheels, you can save even more (14" wheels fit on 1.9s - ?).

 

they've an alot more grip than road tyres, but you've got to be quick when they break away. they wear extremely quickly too.

 

if you really want to check them out for yourself, try a set of second hand ones if you can find them.

 

i'll not be buying anymore - been there and tried them etc. my personal opinion is that their cons far outweigh their pros (mainly that they're expensive, don't last five mins, and are less fun than good road tyres). they're not actually much quicker than road tyres either (not when you consider relative cost anyway). essential on a competition car, bit of a luxury on a track day car imo.

Edited August 14, 2006 by hengti

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Batfink's spot on you need a completly different suspension set up to get the most from them or you will be wasting your time & money with them I'm afraid

 

You would need just to start

 

1, Coil over damper's with 350lb + Springs + 25mm Front ARB

2. 23mm + Rear torsion bars and 25>30mm rear ARB

3. Neg Camber front and back

4. Uprated suspension bushes

[nick 3]

Martin (crf450) had slicks on his with vitually std suspension, brakes etc... and as I'm sure most of you are aware he didn't hang about!!

 

He's also used them on his completely std 306 gti-6 and as far as I know had no problems.

 

Nick

[ashley peddle 3]

cheers for all your replies people - much apreciated!!! i think that a possible 2nd driver may be coming with me to angylsea (sp?) next month and bringing a set of inter's so can try them then and see what i think

 

I'd say go for semi-slicks... Means you can still use them on the road as well!

 

I don't think Kev was suggesting you or your car weren't up to slicks, but they really do challenge anything that isn't really completely solid... Any road derived suspension set up will suffer and the shell will take a battering from the extra loads...

 

I think semi-slicks will probably be the best idea... anyone who has been in my car (ant? kate? base1?) will know that its solid / stiff as hell - very little body roll on the tighest corners compared to standard (i have a feeling that my sig is now out of date but i have them turned off so i cant see it, lol) With decent tyres on the front and back its really quite hard to get the back out (although can be done with enough of a push ) At combe and brunters this year i was just losing grip and sliding everywhere (although i think slicks/semi's would be eaten alive at brunters and your not allowed them at combe i dont think?)

 

(oh and no worries bour what kev said - he is the evil twin )

 

Semi slicks are definetly what you need - though i'd suggest going for a hard compound otherwise they will wear very quickly. These will still grip like a limpit compared to road tyres - and if your car is well set up suspension wise will even be good in the wet

 

boink what was it that graeme used to use mate? as i say im gona try some on track first and then decide if there worth while.... but once iv been through 2 sets i may as well have bought a diff... and the diff is still worth something after i use it

 

really depends upon how much 'spare' cash you've got

 

i've got a set of A038s (Lotus tyres, as above) that i bought s/hand, primarily for sprinting on. they're £130 each new ... not good. A048s are much cheaper at £90ish, and, if you're prepared to switch to 14" wheels, you can save even more (14" wheels fit on 1.9s - ?).

 

they've an alot more grip than road tyres, but you've got to be quick when they break away. they wear extremely quickly too.

 

if you really want to check them out for yourself, try a set of second hand ones if you can find them.

 

i'll not be buying anymore - been there and tried them etc. my personal opinion is that their cons far outweigh their pros (mainly that they're expensive, don't last five mins, and are less fun than good road tyres). they're not actually much quicker than road tyres either (not when you consider relative cost anyway). essential on a competition car, bit of a luxury on a track day car imo.

 

cheers for that info dude - i guess its something that you have to try before you can decide if there what you want or not... dont spose i could "borrow" yours for a while To be honnest the way i drive i dont think my car would last on full slicks for 5 mins... once im that commited to a corner i dont think i would ever be able to catch the car IF it went... (thats being realisti, lol)

 

Martin (crf450) had slicks on his with vitually std suspension, brakes etc... and as I'm sure most of you are aware he didn't hang about!!

 

He's also used them on his completely std 306 gti-6 and as far as I know had no problems.

 

Nick

 

is he actualy quicker on them though? and has his suspension suffered at all? im guessing they would be a lot more effective if he got a decent brake / suspension set up?

[nick 3]

We timed Martin at Donington in the 306, 1.35sec on road tyres, 1.30sec on the slicks.

 

Drop him a pm to find out if he's had any problems.

 

Nick

[Jonmurgie 2]

Martin (crf450) had slicks on his with vitually std suspension, brakes etc... and as I'm sure most of you are aware he didn't hang about!!

 

He's also used them on his completely std 306 gti-6 and as far as I know had no problems.

 

Nick

 

Maybe so but I should imagine the car would eventually start breaking up... "she can-ne take it anymore captain!" I've run slicks on mine and it's amazing, but then my car is far from standard as has all the modifications Miles lists above

 

Basically, if you can afford it get some Yoko A048's as they are simply awesome...

[engine killer 5]

Basically, if you can afford it get some Yoko A048's as they are simply awesome...

 

 

tried the A048 and using the D01J. there are (i think) 2 or 3 different compound, s-soft, m-medium and h-hard. soft is the most sticky one but i tried the h one, it is about the same as (or a bit weaker than) D01J but with harder sidewall. after serveral 1/2 hr thrashing sections, the D01J is still in reasonably good shape. so i think both A048 and D01J are good, may try the Dunlop Direzza02G next time.

[Batfink 201]

Ash - Graeme used the Yoko AO48's with a hard compound. The softs couldnt take the abuse for multiple trackdays

[engine killer 5]

Ash - Graeme used the Yoko AO48's with a hard compound. The softs couldnt take the abuse for multiple trackdays

 

 

i believe so, because one of my friend used it for illegal racing (on the street), it lasted a few days only!

 

just too expensive for me.

[niklas 1]

It's a lot more costeffective to use the same compound all around, but I wouldn't go to hard on the rear because it makes it harder to get up to working temperature in the tyres!

[hengti 2]

s/h is deffo the way if you just want to try them out - they're not common, but the A038s fitted to the front of the Exige/340R as oe sometimes come up - they're a special Lotus compound (code 'LTS' on the sidewall) - i've been told they're somewhere between Med and Soft. Aren't A048s fitted as oe to some new Loti too?

 

Heard that Clio Cup slicks (?) sometimes crop up cheap too.

 

What about phatgti's bargain slicks? can't really go wrong at £25/corner - just for the experience!

[ashley peddle 3]

What about phatgti's bargain slicks? can't really go wrong at £25/corner - just for the experience!

 

he seems to have dissapeared

[Anthony 1,000]

Ash - as others have said, try using some heavily worn road tyres on track to begin with and you'll probably find them about perfect for what you want, with the added bonus of being basically free.

 

Your biggest problem isn't the Eagle F1's themselves (although they're not the best suited tyre for track it must be said) but the fact that you're usually using tyres that are nearly new and have lots of tread left on them. What then happens is that those tread blocks get hot on track and start to move around and letting the car slide about and wear the tyres oddly (the tread blocks will be worn on a slant if you look). With worn tyres (down to 1-2mm or less is usually a good start) this doesn't happen half as much and thus they don't lose grip as badly when they get hot. The only time that you need a decent amount of tread on track is if it's wet so that the tyres can cut through the water on the track and you don't aquaplain.

 

Certainly normally with worn tyres the engine temperatures and brakes start to complain before the tyres have overheated.

[phatgti 0]

Sorry, not much need to be on here as much as my Alfa race car doesn't really fit in

 

Slicks don't just give - you get a slide on but the grip comes back to you rather than a road tyre grip giving and staying gone.

 

8v won't suffer from surge like 16v, mechanical head.

[twowheelterror 0]

Ash - Graeme used the Yoko AO48's with a hard compound. The softs couldnt take the abuse for multiple trackdays

 

its was the SS 'super soft' 032R that had a high wear rate. Got a little too hot around silverstone and the handling did go vague.

O48Rs I used on the road and around numerous trake days. The medium compound had loads of tread left even after 4000 miles on the road. Must admit thought the car is very well set up and isn't hard on tyres

[Guest Megster]

Go for MSA List 1B tyres such as Yoko AO32R or Yoko AO48R - basically road legal racing tyres with moulded tread pattern.

 

I kept an eye on ebay and trawled through the small ads in Motorsport News and eventually bought a secondhand set of AO32Rs in the soft compound for £150 delivered. They've lasted an entire season and still aren't knackered (although, it must be said that we don't actually cover that many competitive miles during the course of a sprint/hillclimb season).

 

They are very, very good tyres.

 

Regards - AJ

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Slicks will transform your lap times whatever your suspension set up as long as you can drive. A gang of us go to Donington on regular basis,we all use standard cars and modified cars with the same slicks from the same supplier and all swear by them.

I've ran these slicks on standard 8valve 205's and Mi'd 205's and standard gti6's with standard brakes in good conditions (good pads ect) with no probs and whatever's on track I'm normally in the top 5% lap time wise because I can drive OK and I've got slicks.

Slicks on any car will transform it's performance with out any other mods and if you were looking for the same gain from engine mods alone I think you'd need at least an extra 75bhp in a 205.I can't understand why people spend thousands modifying there cars for a small gains when the could get such a massive gain from spending £100 on a set of slicks.

I think slicks are good

Cheers Martin

Edited August 16, 2006 by crf450

[hengti 2]

*chuckle*cough*

just out of interest - how much quicker a lap do you reckon you're going on full slicks than you would be on road tyres, and then moulded slicks?

 

edit - spotted earlier ref to 95s down to 90s on full slicks. about fits in with what i was thinking, as i reckon moulded slicks would likely be worth about 3s over a comparable lap; so that answers that.

do you pay £100 a set for yours, or was that a ref to phatgti's?

Edited August 16, 2006 by hengti