Off To Track And Road On Wed Pm...

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

After spending lots of time and money on less than helpful RR sessions (or it could be just me!) I have asked around for the best RR and it appears that Track and Road Powerformance in Essex are the dogs danglies, so I have booked my xs in to be set up.

 

I want the carb jetting correctly, although I think I am pretty close now, the cam dialling in and the staic ignition timing setting accordingly.

 

I have heard good things about them and Steve was very helpful and knowledgeable on the phone.

 

I have also heard that their RR is pretty accurate, so should get a definitive power reading.

 

I'll keep you all updated... (I bet you can hardly wait, eh?)

[smckeown 1]

good stuff, didnt realise he was any good on the old school stuff. I'm there in a few weeks getting a mapping session (hopefully)

Edited July 10, 2006 by smckeown

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Yeah, I, stupidly, asked him if he had much experience of Weber DGAS carbs and he replied, "been working on them for 30 years and I bl00dy hate them".

 

All good then!

 

All the info I could him on them related to how good their mapping was, esp of DTA stuff. Not too keen on Weber Alpha apparently.

[Bono 0]

Do you have any contact details for them,

and whats their hourly charge?

i've got my car that needs mapping and i'm in ipswich so i'd probably take it to these guys

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Track & Road Powerformance

Unit 9, Noak Ind Est, New Rd, Wennington, Rainham, Essex RM13 9EB

Tel: 01708 869189

 

About £80 an hour for my work.

[Sam 4]

Only ever heard good reports of these guys, hopefully it'll make good power then.

[Baz 421]

I also have heard good things from my Ford loving friends! In regard to Weber Alpha stuff i think it's widely not liked as you have to have all their specialised kit to play with it IIRC??

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Not especially bothered about the power, although 100bhp would be nice. I am more concerned with getting the best from the carb/cam etc. Driveability is very poor at low speeds and there is a lull in the power curve between 3 & 4000rpm.

 

Hope they can handle 14" wheels!

[trogboy 17]

Well... How did it go?

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Err...indifferent!

Got there at 2pm, as arranged, to be told I wouldn't be seen until 4pm. Not too much of a problem as he was mapping a new intercooler on a Noble M400, which hit 500bhp, so that was quite entertaining.

Anyway, got a power run on mine at 75bhp @ fly, 97bhp @ wheels. He thought the cam timing was way out. The cam timing was corrected and the power was then slightly down, so the carb was taken apart to be rejetted. During all this, much talking with mates and people who popped in was going on.

Carb was rejetted and again, no power increase. I asked about resetting the ignition timing, but was told it was OK as it wasn't pinking.

He was rushing a bit now as the next person on the rollers had turned up.

 

So, bad points are that it took ages - 3 1/2 hours. and was 2 hours late starting. He kept the jets he took out of my carb. Going up there (1pm - hottest part of a hot day) I hit an indicated 120 and coming back (at 7.30. much cooler) I struggled up to 110. Both journeys made on my private road parallel to the inside lane of the M25, of course. Also, a flat spot that I had been trying for months to eradicate has re-appeared. Grrr...

Good points are that I now know the cam timing is right and the idle is better. Plus, he charged me much less than we agreed on the phone.

 

He claimed that it wouldn't get any more power as my cam was too wild and the carb too big.

I don't if I more disappointed with the car, my work on it, or the RR session.

 

Oh well, I give in now, no more wasted time and money on RR sessions, I will just enjoy it as it is.

[Sam 4]

Unfortunately that sounds very similar to my experiences with carbs, going to throttle bodies was a god send.

 

PS I have an engine for sale

[Jrod 7]

Are you selling the 1.6 8v sam? if so how much do you want for it?

[Sam 4]

Check for sale I can take you out in it if you're interested.

[bren_1.3 1]

Good points are that I now know the cam timing is right and the idle is better. Plus, he charged me much less than we agreed on the phone.

 

hate to say it bud, but it sounds like its been a very disappointing RR session. i dont think you paid all that money for a better idle.....

 

He was rushing a bit now as the next person on the rollers had turned up.

 

sounds like he wasnt particularly interested in your car either, especially since he made you wait 2 hours + for your session to begin, and then rushed you out!!!

 

I hit an indicated 120 and coming back (at 7.30. much cooler) I struggled up to 110. Both journeys made on my private road parallel to the inside lane of the M25, of course. Also, a flat spot that I had been trying for months to eradicate has re-appeared. Grrr...

 

again sounds pretty sh*t. did you tell him about the flatspot initially?

 

He claimed that it wouldn't get any more power as my cam was too wild and the carb too big.

I don't if I more disappointed with the car, my work on it, or the RR session.

 

can i ask you what was expected from this RR session? what was your main aim in going to his RR? where you expecting more power? have you made a power increase at all? or where you looking to eradicate your flatspot?

[paul wicks 0]

Can thoroughly recommend Mick at Hi Tech in Dudley.

 

He mapped my car and my brothers and has worked on lots of 205's with carbs. Good rates too although any mapping on rollers aint cheap. He's been tuning carbed cars for years and years and years and years.

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Thanks Sam, but the car doesn't really justify throttle bodies, or a new engine.

I didn't mention the flatspot initially as it had gone!

I have to say, driveability at low revs is better, but it feels flat at the top end. Maybe that is the compromise I have to live with.

What I wanted from the RR session was;

1) to have the cam dialled in. The head has had 20 thou off, a 280 duration cam fitted and a vernier pulley. I put it together as best I could and wanted it properly set up.

2) I have spent a long time fiddling with carb jets by trial and error, but wanted someone who knew these carbs well to finish it off.

3) get the ignition timing reset if the cam timing had to be adjusted.

4) get a final power figure.

 

1) was done fine

2) going by the book has made the carb worse and this is my problem I think. The carb is too big for the engine and thus, normal settings won't apply.

3) not even looked at, as it wasn't pinking. Surely there is more to ignition timing than just not pinking.

4) got the power figure - 75bhp @ wheels, 97 @ fly (94 if using Pumaracings formula).

 

Don't get me wrong, I love driving the car (or did until the flatspot came back) I was just expecting more improvement over my cack-handed work by an experienced expert.

Or maybe I am a car-tuning genius?

Edited July 13, 2006 by macaroni

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Just realised he did the power runs in 5th gear, with a 1.17:1 ratio. Surely 4th would have been better with a 0.95:1 ratio?

 

Just spent the weekend putting the carb settings back to what they were before and have just about eliminated the flat spot again.

 

Grrr...not pleased.

[pug309twin40s 1]

dizzy timing does make alot of difference if its not set correctly.

 

try advancing the dizzy and see what happens.

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

I have spent hours fiddling with the dizzy, with and without a timing light and I hoped someone more experienced in such things than I would have some insights. Clearly not.

 

My car is going very well again now, after I have put it back to how it was before. I keep trying to call Track ''n Road to voice my dissatisfaction, but the phone is never answered.

[PumaRacing 1]

There are articles on how to organise and agree the spec of a rolling road session on my website. One of the first things I put on there many years ago.

 

A DGAS is far too big for what I presume is a 1.4 8v engine although you don't say. Designed for a 3 litre V6 it added a few bhp to a 2 litre Pinto if properly set up although most of them never were in that application. The full power enrichment system needs extensively modifying for smaller engines. You're also stuck with the choke sizes built into it as opposed to more tunable Weber carbs. Likely as not it just drinks a lot of fuel without giving much extra power.

 

Clearly you've had a piss poor set up session if the ignition timing wasn't even swung either way though. Maybe a tactful phonecall would glean a second attempt free of charge.

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

Thanks for your input. I followed your guide to RR sessions on the website to the letter. I had a very useful phone conversation with him prior to going there and discussed my requirements. He was quite happy the carb could be made to perform and happy to dial in my new cam.

It was a different story when I got there though. Complete indifference.

 

I have just had a revelation; watching him dial in my cam, I sensed something was not quite right but couldn't put my finger on it, until last night, awake during the storms... He measured the cam spec on number 4 piston!

I know the TU is unusual in having number 1 at the gearbox side, but I thought the fact that the timing marks being on the flywheel should have given it away. I was too stupid to notice too...

No wonder the thing lost power.

 

I have been trying to call him ever since, but there is never any answer.

 

I know the carb is rather large for such an engine, but it does go much better with it and I can still get well over 30mpg. I know someone who regularly fits these to 1.3 Suzuki Swifts and he has helped me greatly.

 

Anyway, off to see Matt next week to have it dialled in properly. Must remind him where no 1 cylinder is...

[bren_1.3 1]

Anyway, off to see Matt next week to have it dialled in properly. Must remind him where no 1 cylinder is...

 

let us know how you get on with it!!! and chalk that other session down to experience.

[PumaRacing 1]

I have just had a revelation

 

Ummm not really. On a straight four pot engine No1 and No4 piston go up and down together (as of course do 2 & 3). A TDC mark refers to either so it doesn't matter which you use for cam timing.

 

Now that's a revelation

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

I will Bren, no more RR sessions for me.

 

OK, cheers Dave, I never realised that, a revelation indeed, I take it all back.

[pugrallye 0]

Just realised he did the power runs in 5th gear, with a 1.17:1 ratio. Surely 4th would have been better with a 0.95:1 ratio?

Yeah power runs should be performed in 4th, never top gear