4-2-1 Manifold Fitting

[Veero 1]

Right I have bought a 4-2-1 manifold and full Magnex system to go in the Mi and am wondering how to fit the bugger. There really isnt much space between the bulkhead and the rocker cover. Ive seen several posts where people have said they are able to fit one of these with the engine in, is this with the car on a lift or not?

 

Does anyone know which brand of manifold it is?

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/eas...ng/IMGP1707.jpg

 

I had a good look over it and it all appears to be intact. The welded on braces/gussets look similar to the ones on a Magnex.

 

Also what is the best gasket for it? The standard 8 hole Mi16 gasket probably wouldnt seal properly Im guessing since the rings around each exhaust port wouldnt match the profile of the 4 branches. Do any other 16v XU engines have a 4 branch as standard?

 

Cheers

 

Veero

[hengti 2]

sorry - not sure which manifold that is, but it's not the magnex

 

looks like mild steel to me - iresa manifold - ?

 

i don't know how much more complicated a four branch manifold might be to fit to an Mi, but on the std 8v you need to disconnect the top engine mount to allow you to pull the engine forward so that you can get it in - guess that'll be the same for the 16v

[jackherer 543]

sorry - not sure which manifold that is, but it's not the magnex

 

looks like mild steel to me - iresa manifold - ?

 

To the best of my knowledge neither Magnex or Iresa make 16v manifolds.

[Veero 1]

Yeah had the feeling I would have to remove one of the engine mounts and prize the engine one way or the other. Possible to go in from below with the lower fork removed?

 

Im not attempting this till Saturday so would just like to get a pretty good idea before I embark on it

 

Cheers

Veero

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

To the best of my knowledge neither Magnex or Iresa make 16v manifolds.

I agree, if they ever did it was a limited run & kept very quiet.

 

The joint looks like the same as the one Dream Weaver had problems getting bolts for iirc which means it could be a Pugspares manifold. Which gasket to use I don't know but a standard Mi one will work well enough so that might be your best plan.

 

Graham.

[hengti 2]

apols for the red herring

was thinking that magnex only work with ss, and that it can't therefore be one of theirs

iresa do an 8v mild steel mainfold (probably a piccie of it on the autofive w'site) - had no idea if they did a 16v one - guess not though

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Looks liek the Maniflow one to me, It should split in half and fit that way. Nice and easy compared to the std thing

[Veero 1]

It should split in half and fit that way. Nice and easy compared to the std thing

 

Ideal. Yes it will come apart at that clamp section before the 2-1.

 

Right lets just hope for some good weather at the weekend

 

Cheers

Veero

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

When I fitted my Mi Maniflow manifold, I had to split the thing into three parts, the two branch parts and the 'Y' piece. I then removed the battery and coolant tank, not disconnecting it though. This gave me loads of room to 'hook' the branch sections around the engine and downwards between the bulkhead and subframe.

 

I had it on in 30mins, quite straight forward really and certainly made a difference. Although, it was blowing badly before.

 

I used the standard Pug 16v gasket on mine.

[Veero 1]

When I fitted my Mi Maniflow manifold, I had to split the thing into three parts, the two branch parts and the 'Y' piece. I then removed the battery and coolant tank, not disconnecting it though. This gave me loads of room to 'hook' the branch sections around the engine and downwards between the bulkhead and subframe.

 

I had it on in 30mins, quite straight forward really and certainly made a difference. Although, it was blowing badly before.

 

I used the standard Pug 16v gasket on mine.

 

Legend

 

That's exactly what I was after, thanks Alan.

 

Veero

[Veero 1]

Right contortionist job getting it in there alright, but finally its in.

 

However...

 

Contrary to what I was lead to believe it doesn't fit like a dream and fouls the seam on the bulkhead and also underneath the shell by the gear linkage heat shield. So as a result I have a noisier car with more vibration being transfered to the shell and now it blows from the gasket more than it ever did before anyway since I don't think you can actually tighten the bolts enough to make it seal since it's hitting the bulkhead.

 

Im utterly pissed off with it, since I thought it would solve the whole tractor noise problem and actually provide a nicer note and maybe even a another horse or two. Just want to take it off and throw it in the fecking river.

 

However having spent a lot of money and now time on it Im determined to make it work since it's going to be a royal bastard to remove from the car now it's assembled.

 

I even tried my QEP plate on there and that sticks it too low and it rests on the subframe. Im running a totally standard BX Mi16 engine on standard placement mounts with Grp N bushes.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

Veero

[hengti 2]

not good

 

it's standard practise to fit an uprated lower engine mount when fitting tubular manifolds (to save cracking them as the engine rocks) - have you got one fitted? could it help locate the engine better if not?

[Veero 1]

Well I've got the whole bushing set from Baker Bushings which is solid rubber not the standard one withholes in. There's certainly a lot more vibration in the cabin from the engine and it definately doesn't move as much as the 8v did.

 

As far as I can tell the engine is mounted perfectly as it should be, just the manifold appears to be a few degrees out.

 

Veero

Edited May 23, 2006 by Veero

[hengti 2]

aren't some mi manifolds mounted ontop of a 'wedge shaped' spacer type thing? might help give you a different mounting angle

[Veero 1]

Er, do you mean the QEP wedge? Those are desinged to run a standard Mi manifold on standard engine mounts so you don't have to stove the bulkhead in for it to clear.

 

I have tried the QEP angle plate (thicker at the top than the bottom) on the Maniflow but it drops it far too low.

 

A wedge type plate would work but it would need to be considerably thinner than the QEP one is at its thickest. Literally it only need reangling by a couple of degrees.

 

Veero

[jackherer 543]

it sounds like you couldnt get either the standard manifold with wedge or the 4-2-1 to fit so maybe your shell isn't straight? are the bulkhead/chassis legs/engine mounts all straight looking?

[Veero 1]

it sounds like you couldnt get either the standard manifold with wedge or the 4-2-1 to fit so maybe your shell isn't straight? are the bulkhead/chassis legs/engine mounts all straight looking?

 

Ah sorry, had the standard BX Mi manifold fitted fine with the QEP plate. It was slightly off angle cutting of the downpipe on my behalf that caused the downpipe/manifold join to blow. Also it didn't seem to seal very well between the QEP plate and head either so im trying to get away from any more wedges as it adds another potential area where it can blow.

 

I meant I tried the QEP plate with the Maniflow manifold and that angled it far too low. Im sure the car has had a new drivers side wing at some point since it's slightly faded more than the shell but I have no other reason to think it's not straight the side to side alignement of the manifold is spot on, with it going down the dead centre of the tunnel for it, it's just that it seems jacked up a bit for some reason. All the panels line up and nothing seems out of kilter.

 

I reckon lengthening the fork off the subframe by as little as a few millimeters would solve it. How far do people usually tilt the engine if they fit the Mi like that? I don't want to tilt it anywhere near that far, only a smidgen really.

 

I will try undoing the lower mount and supporting the engine with a jack to see if that sheds any light on it.

 

Veero

Edited May 23, 2006 by Veero

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

I have an bx16v engine in my heap, and a full maniflow exhaust system hanging out of the back of it. NOt that that matters, but the manifold is the same as yours. When i put it all together the engine was already out so i could slot the manifold through the gap for the exhaust (if youve got underneath your car you'll know what i mean). The engine then went it, and i pushed the manifold up from underneath to attach it into place. To say it was a pig of a job is an understatement.. as trying to get to some of the nuts to tighten it down claims knuckle skin. I used the bog standard 16v exhaust gasket. And it all fitted fine in the standard position in the car. Perhaps if yu came by it second hand, the previous owner might have had his engine tilted on the long fork method, and realigned his manifold with a hammer to make it fit. Does it look like this could have been the case?

 

Any progress on it all?

 

Rich

[Anthony 1,000]

Contrary to what I was lead to believe it doesn't fit like a dream and fouls the seam on the bulkhead and also underneath the shell by the gear linkage heat shield. So as a result I have a noisier car with more vibration being transfered to the shell and now it blows from the gasket more than it ever did before anyway since I don't think you can actually tighten the bolts enough to make it seal since it's hitting the bulkhead.

It definately should go straight in and have no clearance issues on a 1.9 Mi engine (it's bloody close on a 2.0 though as the block is slightly taller).

 

What I'd do is undo the bottom engine mount and tilt the engine forward slightly which should allow you to do all the nuts up mounting the manifold to the head. With this done, try tilting the engine back and doing the bottom mount up - is there now clearance with the manifold firmly fixed to the head?

 

I've got a spare Mi16 4-2-1 manifold here if you want to try it to rule out there being something amiss with your manifold, but mine's had the mid-joins welded up so it might be a bit of a mission to get it in the car with the engine in place...

[Veero 1]

Rich as far as I can tell it doesn't appear to have suffered any blunt force trauma, there's no obvious damage or ripples or crumples in the tubing. I bought it off easypug who told me it fitted fine in a standard mount (no lengthened fork) Mi16 in a 205 and he seemed suprised that it wouldn't fit mine. It was fitted to a car he bought and I believe he said the cambelt went so he broke the car. I texted him last night and he said he would find out form the current owner of the shell if the bulkhead had been stoved in at all to make it fit. Currently awaiting a response.

 

As for tightenting the bolts yes it was a royal pig but still easier than the normal Mi manifold and it did claim some skin. I didn't mean access was restricted to do the nuts up, just that since the manifold is now pushing upwards on the seam on the bulkhead it isn't possible to tighten the top row of bolts any further as this would increase the force on the seam.

 

Anthony I will try that tonight. If it does need lengthening of the bracket Ill get the train into work and pop next door to a local engineering place, Im sure they can extend it with some welding jiggery pokery.

 

Having thought about it a bit Im wondering if you could get the manifold out complete with just removing the gear linkages, D/S driveshaft and lower engine mount bracket if that would provide enough space to swing a cat. If not I haven't got an engine crane handy at the moment to get the engine out so can't really try that, cheers anyway Anthony.

 

It does seem bizarre that this doesn't fit, can't think why not.

 

Cheers guys,

Veero

[Veero 1]

Right not amused. Just had a text from easypug saying the new owner says the bulkhead had been modified to allow clearance, something which I am not prepared to do.

 

Right off it comes tonight, back on with the old blowing one which at least cleared the underside of the car.

 

FFS

 

Veero

[d-9 0]

You could find someone with a pipe bender

[Veero 1]

Nope I've given up buggering around with this one, I spoke to easypug and he's been decent about it and will buy the manifold back off me. Ill hang on to the exhaust since it should fit another 4-2-1 and sort it out at a later date.

 

Until then Ill reweld the end of the downpipe on my standard one so it fits better.

 

Veero

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

Sorry to hear that man.. hope the welding fix makes it all right for yu.

 

Rich

[Veero 1]

God dam.

 

Got the other manifold and zorst off tonight and got my Mi manifold and QEP plate back on but gave up after 3 1/2 hours in the pissing rain so no car to drive to work tomorrow.

 

Wish I'd never even spotted the damn for sale ad now for that fricking manifold and exhaust

 

Wasted so much time on this now. Something doesn't want me to have this car perfect. I must have walked under a ladder or broken a mirror lately or something

 

Veero