Building A High Performance Hybrid Engine

[jacobs53 0]

Hi, been wondering ever since i sold my 205 what would be the best engine for a 205???? and have a maximum budget of £1500.00 Well I think a hybrid engine might be the best solution

 

Mi16 1905cc block + internals

gti 6 head

gti 6 manifolds

gti-6 management or mappable ecu system

 

The lightweight Mi16 block (alloy) and the gti-6 head would surely combat the oil starvation problem?

 

Does anyone know how well the gti-6 head flows compared to the 1905cc mi16 head? better/worse?

 

cheers lee

[base-1 17]

Sounds plausable, although use the GTi-6 sump arrangement (and oil pump?) instead of the Mi for the lovely baffles?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I would certainly do a iron block with 92mm diesel crank with 16v head.

Looking into making my T16 engine a 87mm bore and 92mm stroke atm

[jacobs53 0]

I considered a steel block but they weigh over 20kg extra than the alloy block, is the extra weight an issue???

 

lee

[petert 554]

I'd choose an XU10J4 block, from either an S16 or 2L Mi16, so I got oil squirters, full floating rods and the ability to fit the S16/GTi6 windage tray. The 2L Mi16 didn't get a windage tray but can easliy be upgraded. Later blocks have pressed pin rods and no oil squirters, so they're duds, including GTi6.

 

1.9L Mi16 crankshaft

 

Use whatever head takes your fancy. The 2L exhaust manifold is the easiest to fit, so I'd prefer 2L head.

 

I'd run aftermarket ECU with wasted spark using the 2L coils.

[jack biscuit 0]

I'd choose an XU10J4 block, from either an S16 or 2L Mi16, so I got oil squirters, full floating rods and the ability to fit the S16/GTi6 windage tray. The 2L Mi16 didn't get a windage tray but can easliy be upgraded. Later blocks have pressed pin rods and no oil squirters, so they're duds, including GTi6.

 

1.9L Mi16 crankshaft

 

Use whatever head takes your fancy. The 2L exhaust manifold is the easiest to fit, so I'd prefer 2L head.

 

I'd run aftermarket ECU with wasted spark using the 2L coils.

 

Sounds good advice.. only problem is being on a forum like this makes you think that your own motor is a pile of pap!

 

 

one little question.. could the interference pin fit rods be machined to accept the floating pin? or are there problems with pin diameter.. etc

 

as i've only owned common all garden gti lumps, i don't know differences in rod length or anything between gti and mi.. but i can't imagine pug using wildly different rods?

 

TEACH ME MORE!

Edited April 16, 2006 by jack biscuit

[jacobs53 0]

what connecting rods do you use if you use the 88mm or 92mm cranks in the xu10 block?

 

lee

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

what connecting rods do you use if you use the 88mm or 92mm cranks in the xu10 block?

 

lee

 

If you chose the 88mm crank in the S16 then just use all standard.

92mm crank.. custom Pauter ones for example.

[Mandic 0]

as i've only owned common all garden gti lumps, i don't know differences in rod length or anything between gti and mi.. but i can't imagine pug using wildly different rods?

 

From the top of my head I think 143mm for a Mi and 160mm for S16

 

92mm crank.. custom Pauter ones for example.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

From the top of my head I think 143mm for a Mi and 160mm for S16

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

 

S16/T16 ones are 152mm afaik.

The XU10J4R ones are 160mm.

 

And yes.. if it's on a budget then maybe the custom pauter's not an option

[PumaRacing 1]

I'd choose an XU10J4 block, from either an S16 or 2L Mi16, so I got oil squirters, full floating rods and the ability to fit the S16/GTi6 windage tray. The 2L Mi16 didn't get a windage tray but can easliy be upgraded. Later blocks have pressed pin rods and no oil squirters, so they're duds, including GTi6.

 

1.9L Mi16 crankshaft

 

Use whatever head takes your fancy. The 2L exhaust manifold is the easiest to fit, so I'd prefer 2L head.

 

I'd run aftermarket ECU with wasted spark using the 2L coils.

 

Good advice.

 

I wouldn't necessarily condemn lack of oil squirters or press fit pins though. Most engines don't have oil squirters and don't seem to run any less reliably because of it. The gudgeon pin is something that you never see fail these days regardless of what type it is although floating pins obviously make it easier to strip and reassemble and also to fit forged pistons.

 

The GTi6 has smaller inlet valves and larger exhaust ones than the 1.9/2.0 and isn't a head I'd ever use out of choice.

 

Press fit rods can be bushed to take floating pins if there is enough material around the little end but it's an added expense if floating pin rods are already available from another engine.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

If your using the GTi6 head, Use the 1.8 16v bottom end (Ally),

[jacobs53 0]

If your using the GTi6 head, Use the 1.8 16v bottom end (Ally),

 

why would i want to use the 1.8 16v bottom end is this just for the weight benefit? or are there other advantages?

 

The GTi6 has smaller inlet valves and larger exhaust ones than the 1.9/2.0 and isn't a head I'd ever use out of choice.

 

Oh i didn't realise it had smaller inlet valves.... how does it flow though compared to the mi16 heads?

 

cheers lee

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Just check the bore size, Increase the stoke and your away if you want to stick with the small CC version thou, The iron block is better for the cheap route, You can't beat extra CC's. But you can get 86.5mm liners for it if you want

[jacobs53 0]

o.k been thinking about this in some more depth now... and have a new DW8 (1.9 non turbo) engine and wondered are the diesel cranks stronger than the 88mm petrol cranks? And can you use the connecting rods????

 

I have been examining a 1905cc connecting rod very closely, and notice a few issues with its design in a performance engine. The small end part of the rod seems to differ with regards to material thickness (one side is thicker than the other) also some very sharp corners which act could lead to increased stress around the main journal.

 

And with regards to matching a connecting rod to the 88mm crank in a steel block, you said to use the standard rods.... do you mean the standard 86mm crank rods, or the 88mm crank rods?

 

cheers lee

[petert 554]

Use the following:

XU10J4 block

XU10J4 pistons

XU10J4 rods

XU9J4 crank

XU10J4 mains bearings

XU9J4 or XU10J4 rod bearings

 

This will give you 11:1 and 2044cc.

 

If rods are a concern, just buy new H beam items. They're cheap as chips these days, but unless you're headed past 8000 the std. rods will be fine.

[mfield 20]

the gti6 block i seen had oil squirters ???

[Pug_101 0]

Has anyone got a link to match up all these engine codes to the cars they were fitted to.

I am struggling to keep up. Great thread though and some tasty combinations look on the cards.

Never realized you could pick & mix so easily.

[petert 554]

the gti6 block i seen had oil squirters ???

 

yes, you're right. The blocks which definitely don't have squirters are XU10J2 and XU10J4R. The XU10J4RS is definitely pressed pins however.

[Kev-G 1]

Just check the bore size, Increase the stoke and your away if you want to stick with the small CC version thou, The iron block is better for the cheap route, You can't beat extra CC's. But you can get 86.5mm liners for it if you want

 

IIRC the 1.8 16V uses smaller journals than the 'old' XU motors - Which crank would you use to increase stroke?

 

The stroke on this engine will be approx. 86mm (with a 83mm bore IIRC to give 1800ish) - A 88mm stroke will take you to approx. 1900 - You'll need a long stroke (90ish) and custom rods to even get 2000.

 

Sounds expensive?

[jacobs53 0]

Use the following:

XU10J4 block

XU10J4 pistons

XU10J4 rods

XU9J4 crank

XU10J4 mains bearings

XU9J4 or XU10J4 rod bearings

 

This will give you 11:1 and 2044cc.

 

If rods are a concern, just buy new H beam items. They're cheap as chips these days, but unless you're headed past 8000 the std. rods will be fine.

 

good information there.

 

Anyone have any techincal information about the diesel connecting rods?

 

lee

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

yes, you're right. The blocks which definitely don't have squirters are XU10J2 and XU10J4R. The XU10J4RS is definitely pressed pins however.

 

The block I have is a 10J4R one.. It had 160mm rods and pistons with very tiny valve cutouts originally.

Also it's casted J4R into the block itself.

 

It have oil squirters in place..

 

Are there different versions of the J4R block then?

 

Edit: Have browsed through the parts cd now, and seems like we're both correct.

Check this picture out: http://cortex.fa-s.ntnu.no/~kristian/205gt...ers/xu10j4r.jpg

 

Looks like only the early XU10J4R's got the oil squirters, mine is dated 28/10/95, so that's just a month before they stopped doing them with squirters then..

Edited April 19, 2006 by B1ack_Mi16

[petert 554]

My goodness. I'll think twice before passing up an XU10J4R again.

[Guest j999pre]

Use the following:

XU10J4 block

XU10J4 pistons

XU10J4 rods

XU9J4 crank

XU10J4 mains bearings

XU9J4 or XU10J4 rod bearings

 

This will give you 11:1 and 2044cc.

 

If rods are a concern, just buy new H beam items. They're cheap as chips these days, but unless you're headed past 8000 the std. rods will be fine.

 

What would be the best head to use with such a rig? Not the gti6? and what sort of inlet and exhaust manifolds would work? Carbs tbs injection? what management etc?

 

Lots to think about

 

Thanks

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

why would i want to use the 1.8 16v bottom end is this just for the weight benefit? or are there other advantages?

Oh i didn't realise it had smaller inlet valves.... how does it flow though compared to the mi16 heads?

 

cheers lee

 

Has anyone got flow figures for a GTi6 head?

 

I was going to use a GTi6 head on my build, mainly to eliminate the oil surge problems associated with the Mi16 one. Are the flow differences glaring or minimal?