Hydralic Handbrake, Bias Valves Big Brakes, Setup Trouble!

[PUGugly 0]

I have just fitted a set of 306gti6 front discs and pads to my 205 which already has a 309 rear axle. The master cylender is off a 406. I want to install a hydralic hand brake and some lever type brake bias valves but don't know the best way to do this! Is it better to use two bias valves, one for each rear corner or to get a master cylender with a 3 pipe circuit (2 ft and 1 for both bk).

If this is a case which cylender would be suitable considering the increased caliper piston sizes?? Also any body got any ideas for the hydralic handbrake as I see many different kits available from £40 to a couple of hundred. Would really like to keep it road legal for the MOT !!

 

Oh and i recently drove a 205 rally car with no servo assist on the brakes. Took some getting used too!! Any advantages or dissadvantages on doing this???

[Butler 0]

Tee the 2 rear lines into one before running it though your valve and handbrake, then split again to the rear wheels.

[jonah 1]

DON'T tee the rear lines together if they were originally on diagonally separate circuits. This will turn your dual circuit system into a single circuit, meaning that if you get a leak anywhere in the system, you will lose ALL brakes not just two of them like you would with a dual circuit system.

 

You need to have both front brakes on one circuit and both rear brakes on the other. You can convert a 4-port M/C into a 3-port by simply blanking off one of the ports. There is no difference internally. Then just run one line to the bias valve then hydraulic handbrake then tee to both rear brakes. The bias valve needs to go before the HH so you can't have two bias valves unless you have two handbrake cylinders!

 

I'm halfway through installing a HH and bias valve myself, will post up some pics when finished. Got them both from CompBrake and went for a vertical lever handbrake, separate from the original handbrake lever. It cost £79+vat and looks good and feels well engineered, I'll let you know what it's like to use once the install is finished!

 

To servo or not is down to personal preference... no servo means a more linear response but a heavier pedal. I was advised to disconnect the servo on my rally car but tried it and couldn't get used to the difference in weight between pedals, also found I couldn't H&T. So have kept the servo connected.

[PUGugly 0]

Think i'll go with the blanked off m/c and T piece after the H/H. Thanks!!

 

Has your handbrake got a cable attachment to allow it to be MOT'd like i.m told the ones in the demon tweaks catalogue have??

 

Or what about keeping the excisting handbrake and also fitting a H/H with a vertical lever next to it? Is this possible, seems to be?

 

Any one know where i can source a suitable plug for the master cylender??

Edited March 28, 2006 by PUGugly

[jonah 1]

Try your local car spares shop for a blanking plug. Even Halfords might be able to supply you one. Some M/C's are supplied with blanking plugs where the same unit is used in multiple applications but with different numbers of ports, so they're not uncommon. If you really can't find one then tee together the two lines off one chamber of the M/C, this will have the same effect.

 

The HH I've bought doesn't have a cable attachment or locking mechanism, so I've kept the original handbrake as well for parking and MOT. I've mounted the new one alongside the seat with the lever just next to my left leg, so it's in easy reach and hopefully will be easy to get a good pull on.

[PUGugly 0]

The HH I've bought doesn't have a cable attachment or locking mechanism, so I've kept the original handbrake as well for parking and MOT. I've mounted the new one alongside the seat with the lever just next to my left leg, so it's in easy reach and hopefully will be easy to get a good pull on.

 

Sounds good. Think this is the way to go!! Thanks for the help!!!

 

Was thinking of trying servoless brakes for a comparison, any one know how to set this up safely??!!

[Butler 0]

DON'T tee the rear lines together if they were originally on diagonally separate circuits.

 

 

Ah yes, sorry I forgot to mention I changed the master cylinder from diagional split to front/rear split before doing this.

 

 

 

I fitted the Pug Sport Group N lever and master cylinder which one lever operates the cables also. I leave mine in gear for parking. I think a seperate vertical lever is better for a rally car.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Butler

[jonah 1]

Was thinking of trying servoless brakes for a comparison, any one know how to set this up safely??!!

 

Really easy, just pull the servo vacuum hose off the inlet manifold, and block up the stub on the manifold (make sure whatever you block it with isn't going to get sucked in!!).

[Jonmurgie 2]

My brakes became 'servo-less' at Combe last week when the pipe popped off the T piece near the servo... MAN the brakes went horribly hard and hardly worked! Can't see why anyone would want brakes like that?!

[PUGugly 0]

Ah yes, sorry I forgot to mention I changed the master cylinder from diagional split to front/rear split before doing this.

I.

 

What master cylender did you use with a front / back split???

[Butler 0]

The standard 205 one, just swapped 2 pipes over to change the split.

[Daxed 7]

No wish to hijack, just want additional thoughts to the options that i have available.

 

Car started life as a 1.6.

 

Running a 1.9 rear beam and std disk setup.

 

Pipes dodgy so going to run new.

 

306 GTI-6 at the front.

 

406 non ABS 4 way M/C.

 

Blank off 1 way and re-run 1.6 setup. With or without compensator?

 

Duplicate 1.9 setup and run twin pipes to rear. With or without compensators?

 

Have received differing views as to running with/without rear compensators and would appreciate tested opinions.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

306 GTI-6 at the front.

 

406 non ABS 4 way M/C.

 

Blank off 1 way and re-run 1.6 setup. With or without compensator?

 

Duplicate 1.9 setup and run twin pipes to rear. With or without compensators?

 

Have received differing views as to running with/without rear compensators and would appreciate tested opinions.

Personally I'd choose duplicate the 1.9 set up with compensators, especially if it is used mostly as a road car.

 

Graham.

(MC will be posted either tomorrow or Thursday btw)

[Craigb 2]

My set up is the same As Daxed

 

306 calipers up front

 

1.9 rear discs

 

22mm MC with two ports blanked

 

fronts tee'd into one port

 

Rears fed via a bias valve , hyd handbrake , and then tee'd to each rear wheel

 

no compensator in my set up

 

The bias valve , allows you to do what you want with the brakes. IMO this is ok for a road or competition car .

 

I had a none servo pedal box on mine, but took it off, as this is not really suitable for road use . Idael for a forest though where the bias can be adjusted to assist set up for corners

[PUGugly 0]

22mm MC with two ports blanked

 

fronts tee'd into one port

 

Rears fed via a bias valve , hyd handbrake , and then tee'd to each rear wheel

 

Does it matter which ports on the master cylender you block, ie both on one side or diagonally opposed?

 

Will it pass an MOT with these blanked off?

[Craigb 2]

The blanked ports are both on one side

 

Mine passes a MOT test no problems

[PUGugly 0]

The blanked ports are both on one side

 

Does blanking the two ports off affect the brake pedal travel distance at all??

 

Whats the advantages of blocking one of the front m/c ports off, surely it's only nessassary to block one of the back ones off??

[Craigb 2]

Whats the advantages of blocking one of the front m/c ports off, surely it's only nessassary to block one of the back ones off??

 

Good point , i will have to check tha what i have said is right ...

 

The travel dosent change at all as you are still moving the same pistons with the same MC , it only changes when you swap from std to 22mm

[jonah 1]

Does blanking the two ports off affect the brake pedal travel distance at all??

 

Whats the advantages of blocking one of the front m/c ports off, surely it's only nessassary to block one of the back ones off??

You're right, there's no need at all to block one of the front ports. It will make absolutely no difference to brake pressure, travel, or anything else (compared to connecting one front brake to each front port).

[Rippthrough 98]

My brakes became 'servo-less' at Combe last week when the pipe popped off the T piece near the servo... MAN the brakes went horribly hard and hardly worked! Can't see why anyone would want brakes like that?!

 

You'd usually use a smaller MC though

[PUGugly 0]

so the best layout for the set up is 406M/C runnig front two 306 gti6 brakes.

one of the back ports of the M/C blanked off and the other running a single line to the biased valve and on to the H/H then T'd to the back 309 rear brakes.

if i was to run this system servo less what sort of master cylinder size would i need? is there a simple swap within the peugoet family?

[PUGugly 0]

Anyone????