Sump Gasket

[Guest percy]

Can someone recommend the correct procedure for fitting a sump gasket on a 205 1.9gti. I have now replaced the gasket twice but I am still getting oil dripping from the front. I have used the O.E. sump gasket from peugeot together with blue gasket sealent, torqued the bolts to the correct setting but just can't seem to get a good seal.

[Jonmurgie 2]

I didn't think there WAS a gasket as such, just the sealant stuff? Have you checked that the bottom of the block and the top of the sump are level and square?

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Dont bother with the gasket just use some good instant gasket style sealant, otherwise they always leak!

 

You sure the leaks not coming from the oil filler, or breather pipe at the front of the block, could be running down on to the sump???

[Ahl 4]

Its possible that the oil is leaking from the spacer plate above the gasket - this only goes on with sealant. The oil cooler sandwich plate which goes between the oil filter and engine can also leak when the o-ring goes hard.

 

Theres also the possibility that one of the oil pressure sensors is leaking. These sit above the oil filter, to the right of the alternator.

[PumaRacing 1]

"Blue gasket sealant" sounds like hylomar which is not what you want on a sump gasket. Awa wi ye to your local DIY store and buy a tube of clear silicon sealant - the stuff you seal round baths with. Apply a bead about 3mm thick round both sides of the gasket, fit the sump, nip the bolts up lightly, leave for a couple of hours for the sealant to harden, nip the bolts up fully and your leak will be no more.

[petert 553]

Clear silicone? In 3mm beads? Yuck!

 

There should be no gaskets.

 

Buy some ThreeBond 1211. It's designed for extreme duty metal to metal sealing. eg. motorcycle gearboxes. Apply a very thin layer to both surfaces, when tacky, bring together. If any more than a bee's d*ck squeezes out you've put too much on.

[PumaRacing 1]

Clear silicone? In 3mm beads? Yuck!

 

Not wishing to get into a pissing contest about types of sealant but over the years I've built something like a hundred race engines and if they pissed oil or water out I'd have had a lot of unhappy customers. I've found that ordinary clear Dow Corning RTV silicone is the best thing IMO for sealing sumps, rocker covers, water pumps and pretty much anything else on an engine. Like any other sealant you want to use as little as possible so it doesn't squeeze into the engine. It's also cheap and readily available in any DIY store. About £3 for a 310ml tube in my village shop or free when my mate who fits double glazing pops round with a tube which he buys in bulk for pennies. You can pay a lot more for 'automotive' RTV from specialist suppliers but it doesn't work any better. For engines with CATs you ideally want one that doesn't release acetic acid as it cures if you're using it where it can get into the exhaust system but it cures so fast that I doubt if that's a major concern in most cases. The acetic acid will be long gone by the time the engine is started up.

 

The only place I normally use a different sealant is for very accurately machined and close fitting metal to metal surfaces like the split line in VW Beetle crankcases where a thinner sealant is very lightly applied and I have a couple of variants of special liquid sealants in hardening and non-hardening varieties for those odd ball jobs.

 

There should be no gaskets.

 

There's no gasket between the spacer plate and block but there is one between the plate and the steel sump pan. Maybe not everyone uses it but it comes in the gasket set.

 

I use a very thin smear of silicone between the plate and the block because that's a close fitting joint and then a thicker application on the gasket which I apply only around the centre and outside edge of the gasket so it doesn't squeeze into the sump. A 3mm bead which you then spread around a bit with your finger does the job.

[petert 553]

Sorry, I'm just not a silastic fan. It's hard to remove (compared to ThreeBond) and usually ends up in horror cases like this:

 

 

 

A tube of ThreeBond costs approx. $25 and will easily do half a dozen sumps.

[PumaRacing 1]

Well if people put anything on with a trowel it'll cause a problem as CraigB has just found out when his top end went pop after 'professionals' fitted my BV head for him. So much black RTV squeezed into the engine it blocked the camshaft spray bar and killed a cam lobe.

 

I find clear silicone comes off very easily, especially in the paraffin tank, although the black stuff that garages use can be a bugger to remove. Paraffin and an old tooth brush and clear silicone just brushes off in strands. The strands are generally stronger than the bond they form to the metal so you can peel them off. The black stuff forms a stronger bond to the metal than to itself so the strands break when you try to peel them off which leaves you with hours of scraping to clean things up.

 

As for cost I find a £3 310ml tube of silicone lasts me so long it goes off before I can finish a tube. Probably enough for 20 engines in each tube and I don't build enough of those now to use a tube up before it hardens. It's done a fine job on my engines for 15 years and I'm not going to change to something several times the price for the sake of it. Each to his own of course.

 

I believe Anthony on here took my advice about silicone and it cured his leaking sump problems.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I found my sump wouldn't seal unless I spent ages getting the surfaces spotless with wet n dry paper and then throughly cleaning off the alloy dust and when applying sealant I let it almost dry before putting sump back on. When I had a garage try to do it they made a right mess. Black s*it everywhere. And it still leaked. But now I've finally got the hang of it.

[PumaRacing 1]

Doing sump gaskets in situ is a pisser. Oil dripping everywhere and crawling under the car on your back. I have the luxury of doing them with the engine upside down on an engine stand and everything clinically clean. That makes a huge difference to how easy it is to get them to seal and touch wood none of mine have ever leaked since I started using clear silicone. I did once have to do the sump gasket on my own car (Fiesta CVH) in situ and still didn't manage to get the bugger to seal despite having done dozens of that type of race engine without difficulty in the workshop.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I did my 1.9 with no problems. I was't even particularly clinical about cleaning the surfaces and probably had some little bits of old gasket on the faces. Just used a GSF gasket and gasket sealant from Halfords and it was fine.

[Bonzai 2]

is GE RTV 108 (clear) or 162 (white) [both general purpose] suitable for sump fitting? i accidently left some in my pocket one night after work

[Guest percy]

Thanks for the responses on this one guys, had another look underneath and oil is seeping from the joint between the spacer plate and the engine block (where I have only used blue sealent). I've also got a bolt missing (thread has stripped on the block) but strangely this is on the opposite side to the leak. So is Dow Corning RTV the way to go? How can I get the missing bolt replaced if there is no thread?

[PumaRacing 1]

How can I get the missing bolt replaced if there is no thread?

 

Either helicoil it or tap it out to a bigger size which then means machining a bigger recess in the plate for the bigger bolt head. Both unpleasant options with the engine in the car so I wouldn't bother about it. The sump bolts hold the plate down too.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Clear silicon on mine (I didnt do it), and it doesn't leak one bit

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Don't overfill the sump.