Another Vts/gti Conversion Topic

[Guest ben205]

Hi everyone,

 

Ive been reading through the history of engine transplants on this forum. I have learnt that it is possible to fit a Vts/106 Gti engine in an XS, and also that an engine swap between an XS and a lower base model isn't a big job.

 

So theoretically,does this mean fitting a 106 Gti into a TU engined Trio is as much work as fitting one into an XS?

I Have a Trio with a genuine 34,000 miles on it, would this be as good a shell as any to put the 16v engine?

 

Also if anyone has had this engine put into their 205, how much labour did it take?how much did a company charge you?which companies? etc

If you could give me some price guidelines or estimates, that would be appreciated.

 

Best Regards - Ben Smith

[Sandy 189]

I did it myself and made the wiring easier by using an aftermarket ECU. Mechanically it's very straightforward, the top right mount needs machining slightly to clear the cambelt cover, but otherwise it drops in. The exhaust manifold needs to be cut'n'shut onto a 205 TU downpipe, again, not rocket science. All the other plumbing is simplicity, except that you need to fit a GTi fuel tank and high pressure fuel lines.

The standard 106 ECU needs to be unlocked by disconnecting the immobiliser keypad or transponder box while the engine is running in the donor 106/VTS. If not it can be unlocked by certain companies, but they charge £100-300 for this service!! After that the wiring is straight forward if you have the diagram for the donor car, they exist on the net.

You have to use a later MA gearbox (ie the 106/vts one) for the TDC sensor opening. The nearside 205 driveshft won't go in as far on this box, so the driveshaft seal need only be knocking in until it's about 3-4mm proud of the diff casing, to prevent leakage. The gear linkage etc is interchangeable.

Expect people to tell you that GTi front suspension is a good idea, personally I think the base model suspension is fine if the arms are renewed, or even better, fit 309 TU arms and shafts for a slightly widened trck, increased negative camber and hence better turn in and stability than a GTi. (Don't knock it until you've tried it )

It's about the same amount of hassle as an Mi conversion, weighs roughly the same and the MA gearbox is crap (ratios and strength). So having tried this, i'd say unless you really must hav the TU 16v, consider the Mi as a better package overall.

[Jer309GTi 3]

Some good advice there, answered every question I had about the conversion in one go

[boombang 2]

Anyone done this conversion using a BE box with the casing modified?

 

Surely so long as you had the knowledge and skill and did a proper jobs its not that difficult.

 

In the Mini world for example its not uncommon to modify box casings.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Have a look at this: BE4 gearbox mated to a 206 1.6-16V engine into a 106:

 

http://manu.okp.free.fr/PICS/106/106%20S16%20turbo.htm

[Guest smokinslim]

Would it be possible to swap the the inners between an XS MA box and the VTS\GTI MA box, so you have the sensor etc from the new box but better ratios and strength of the older box?

[Guest ben205]

Thanks Sandy309 for all that information. Do you think you conversion was worth it in the end? And was yours an XS to start with or an XE like mine?

 

Wouldnt fitting an Mi16 engine be alot lot difficult as the Mi is an XU engine, as my cars a TU?

[Sandy 189]

The older MA boxes are even weaker.

 

Mine was a UK 205 Rallye, I did it because I thought it would be different and didn't know the weight and limitations of the TU 16v, now I know more. I'd choose the Mi now because it's got so much more potential and a better gearbox, for an irrelevant weight penalty, or tune the 8v TU which is a much better engine than the standard one lets on!

 

I converted one of my 309's from TU to Mi, the top right engine mount needs changing on the inner wing for an XU one on pre facelift shells, but not later ones and the gear linkage is simple if you use GTi subrame etc. It's abou the same amount of work as the TU 16v to be honest.

[bren_1.3 1]

the euro rallye had driveshafts that mated the MA box to 1600 gti running gear, but you wont find many of those about nowadays!! something worth considering though, rather than trying to make an BE box fit a TU engine.

[Guest ben205]

So has anyone got any major doubts or objections about me trying to put a 106 Gti engine in a base model XE? It would be different i suppose.

 

Also how much am i looking at spending making this dream project a reality? any input at all would be appreciated.

[Guest duncan]

Go for it! Don't forget to upgrade your brakes - as you have base model hubs go for the 306hdi conversion which will give you 266mm discs. Depending on what your going to be using the car for think about the suspension to. No point in going fast if you can't go round the bends!

[Sandy 189]

the euro rallye had driveshafts that mated the MA box to 1600 gti running gear, but you wont find many of those about nowadays!! something worth considering though, rather than trying to make an BE box fit a TU engine.

It's the gearbox itself, not the shafts, that's the problem.

 

As regards suspension, upgrading to the GTi set up isn't as cost effective as 309 TU shafts and lower arms. a GTi rear axle is a good idea though, as are Bilstein dampers (Challenge spec ones form Peter Lloyd Rallying are incredible, Sprintline very good but softer), 106GTi 50mm sp[rings are dual rate and drop the base 205 35-40mm, they are quite compliant in a straight line, but stiffen nicely when cornering.