Running In A Rebuilt Block?

[kate205gti 4]

after Anthony very kindly rebuilt a bottom end for my mi16 I simply have to swap it over and run it in engine is eventually in after several minor dramas (BIG thanks to ash, anthony, base-1 and davew for help!) and when it eventually decides to start (see other thread!) I'll need to run it in!

 

had hoped to leave the first run to beep but my car has other ideas!!

 

sooo... how do I drive it/run it in please? I have a track day on Saturday () so hoping to get up to 1000 miles on it before then if and when it starts (nothing like leaving stuff to the last minute )

 

The head has just been skimmed, and the block was rebuilt http://ben.loaded.net/gallery/view_album.p...inebuild&page=1

 

Its got s*ite 20/50 oil in at the mo and has been cranked over and started once and driven for 5 mins before the clutch ate itself but not enough to stop it clattering

 

am planning to do an oil change after 50 miles-ish but how do I drive it when it first starts, how should I start it (crank it over first or just turn the key and rev it?), and what rev range, etc.. anything not to do?

 

what oil for the next change and how many miles before another one?

 

any advice appreciated

 

thankyou

[boombang 2]

with the danger of another massive debate thread starting here is my tuppence worth (afterwards am leaving this thread well alone!):

 

Idea with running in rings is to give pressure then vaccuum - so acceleration up, then coast back down over and over.

 

Bearings are tight when new and just need to be careful to let them get hot and cool down whilst keeping them nicely lubricated and not too hot until surface bedded in.

 

Ease the revs up at first with coasting down after gentle acceleration. In first 50 miles take it easy and I like to do a lot of short runs to let the bearings heat up and cool down without getting too much heat in as they will be tight. Main reasons for an oil change here are it removes any swarf/dirt from build, and that your oil gets damaged by fuel passing by the rings (over time this will obviously decrease as they bed into the bores)

 

After first oil change, still take it easy, continue gentle acceleration up and coasting down, building revs over time - e.g up to 3k revs till 250 miles, then up to 3.5k revs till 350, then 4.5k revs till 450 or similar.

 

After 500 miles or so I doubt the bearings will need much more bedding in and its just the rings that will take the time.

[Anthony 1,000]

The way I do it is fairly similar to Boombang's advice above. There's not really any black art involved, so just follow these basic rules and you'll be fine:

1. Keep the engine below 4000rpm for the first 500 miles, and then slowly increase the maximum rpm as the miles increase after that (say 5000rpm upto 600 miles, 5500rpm upto 800 miles, and 6000rpm upto 1000 miles) abeilt only in shortish bursts rather than prolonged high revs
   
2. Try to avoid keeping the engine idling for long periods of time during the first 100-200 miles - a few minutes in stop-start traffic is fine, but don't leave it idling for 30 minutes outside while you make yourself a cup of tea.
   
3. Try to avoid sitting at a constant speed and engine load for long periods during the first 200 miles - basically don't sit there cruising down the motorway
   
4. Try to keep varying the throttle using lots of acceleration and engine-braking (ie letting off the throttle completely and letting the engine slow the car down) between 2000 and 4000rpm
   

Change the oil after 20-50 miles and use some more 20W50 rubbish. Change the oil again after about 400-500 miles and then use a reasonable 10W40 mineral oil (no synthetic based oil until atleast 1000 miles).

 

The tappets should progressively quieten down after a few miles as they fill themselves back up with oil.

[M3Evo 0]

When I started mine for the first time, I cranked it over with the plugs out and the ecu disconnected until the oil light went out and pressure started registering on the gauge.

 

Thought it might be an idea to make absolutely sure the oil system was working before starting the engine!

[boombang 2]

Doh I looked again!

 

I also fill the oil up through with the rocker cover removed too - coat the cams and everything well (unless new cams then use proper cam lube).

 

When bits are clamped down (like cam caps) I oiled them up too so I can really avoid any metal on metal on startup

[Anthony 1,000]

When I started mine for the first time, I cranked it over with the plugs out and the ecu disconnected until the oil light went out and pressure started registering on the gauge.

 

Thought it might be an idea to make absolutely sure the oil system was working before starting the engine!

Although it doesn't say so above, I did that last week prior to the engine being started for the first time.

 

Correctly pointed out though for anyone other than Kate reading this, that you should prime the engine until the oil pressure light goes out before starting the engine - it's scary how much cranking it needs to fully prime the system, and it'd do the engine no favours at all if you started it without having first done that!

[kate205gti 4]

it didnt start after it was cranked though do i need to do this again after it stood for 5 days?

[ashley peddle 3]

if you do nab my battery kate. im getting a new one shortly anyways and no point in killing your new one! (mine *should* be on the floor next to my car but not seen it for about a week )

[kate205gti 4]

if you do nab my battery kate. im getting a new one shortly anyways and no point in killing your new one! (mine *should* be on the floor next to my car but not seen it for about a week )

dont know where thats gone then :whistle:

[Anthony 1,000]

it didnt start after it was cranked though do i need to do this again after it stood for 5 days?

No, it only needs to be done once. From then on, just start the car as you normally would

 

The reason you need to crank the engine over a few times with the injectors/ignition disabled (so it won't start) is because with a freshly rebuilt engine, there's no oil in any of the oilways inside the head or engine block, just the oil in the sump and the oil on the journals used during assembly. When you crank the engine over, the oil pump is spinning and sucks the oil out of the sump and fills the oil ways etc so that everything is lubricated and protected when you first start the engine.

 

The only time you might want to repeat it is if the engine has been stood for several months without being run, but there's certainly no requirement to if you're just talking a few days/weeks.

[kate205gti 4]

:D

 

it runs!!

 

ive driven it 20 miles so far varying the revs, lots of engine braking, not going above 3.5k - seems to be happy

 

two quick qs thou:

 

how do you bleed the rad? i squeezed all the hoses and drove it for 10mins with the rad cap off, pulled into services jumped out with it idling and topped it up and squeezed all the hoses and undid the bleed screw by the bulkhead while ash kept the blipping the revs up for me but the water was coming out in bursts from the bleed point - does that mean theres still air in there?

 

the idle is going up and down between 1.5k and 2k (although havent let it idle for too long obviously) is that connected with rad bleeding??

 

i spent a couple of minutes squeezing hoses and letting the ater out the bleed cap before putting the rad cap on and driving a further 5 mins home and now it sat on my drive - going to take it to work tomorrow (11ish miles) and drive it round at lunch and then do an oil change and get some proper miles on it in the evening, but what else should i do regarding the radiator and the idle??

 

all help appreciated as always

[Anthony 1,000]

Woohoo - Momo's alive (and my engine hasn't grenaded)

 

Erratic idle I'm guessing is an airleak somewhere, I'd hazard a guess probably between the throttle bodies and manifold given the hassles we had in trying to get them on and the nuts done up.

 

With regards to bleeding the cooling system, it's probably alright - is the coolant temperature stable and at the right temperature when the car is warmed up (somewhere around 1/3 - 1/2 on the gauge) and do you get hot air from the heater? If so, then I'd say it's probably fine and not to worry

 

Was last nights problem that pesky multiplug again?

[kate205gti 4]

sorted that now - thankyou

 

ive managed to get 150 miles on in total now, did an oil change at 60 miles from crap 20/50 cheap stuff to some more cheap non sythetic stuff from tescos (10/40)

 

when do I need to do the next oil change and to what oil please?

 

also ive been driving the car mainly between 2.8k and 3.5k accelerating and then engine braking and trying to go down lots of twisty bendy roads with lots of gear changes and roundabouts and change of revs and not letting it idle too long

 

how long do i need to drive it like this? and when can i start letting it idle/sitting at set revs?

 

cheers

[Anthony 1,000]

Now you've got 150 miles on the clock, the majority of the bedding in of the rings is complete. It's now safe to let the engine idle and sit at a constant speed on the motorway etc, but you need to still keep the revs below 4000rpm or so.

 

I'd change the oil again around the 400-500 mile mark and use some 10W40 mineral based oil again. Leave that in for a further 500-1000 miles or so, and then switch to normal 10W40 semi-synthetic oil or whatever you used on the old engine

[kate205gti 4]

cool will try and get another 350 on tonght then () is the cheap stuff from tescos ok for the next change too?? cost £4.90 lol!

[Anthony 1,000]

cool will try and get another 350 on tonght then () is the cheap stuff from tescos ok for the next change too?? cost £4.90 lol!

If you're still going to have that oil in the car when you do your trackday at Haynes this weekend, I'd personally put some decent quality 10W40 mineral oil in to atleast offer the engine some degree of protection when you're giving it some beans.

[M3Evo 0]

Something else which occured to me was that it's probably not a bad idea to build the pressure up in the system after an oil change too, afterall, the system's pretty much empty when you've taken the filter off.

[Anthony 1,000]

Something else which occured to me was that it's probably not a bad idea to build the pressure up in the system after an oil change too, afterall, the system's pretty much empty when you've taken the filter off.

Certainly wouldn't do any harm, but there's still enough oil in the system after doing an oil change that this isn't really needed IMO. Oil pressure light goes out within a second or so normally after an oil change, rather than needing 15-20 seconds odd of cranking like on a rebuilt engine.

[kate205gti 4]

woooo it purrs now biiig thanks to james (j1400) who stuck a cinnamometre up his trumpets and balanced them - supposed to read between 5 and 7.. mine were all reading 10 apart from one that was reading 2 that would explain the pants idle and popping then!

[Sandy 189]

I agree with no idling for first 30 minutes or so, best bet is to just drive it, varying the speed for about 100miles, definately don't labour it at low rpm, let it rev from time to time. Change the oil and just drive it like normal after that.

 

Oil temperature and changing it are the only important things, i've not had any problems witht the engines i've built yet.

 

Or as my mate Scott put it... "fit the engine the night before the event, roll it off the trailer, go through scrutineering, pull up to the start line, 5000 rpm, drop the clutch and drive like your ass is on fire!" that's how he ran in his XE last year and had no issues with it. if it's built right to start with it'll be fine, I've never run in my work Hondas, and they've still been in rude health after 140k.

Edited March 9, 2006 by sandy309

[kate205gti 4]

cheers sandy ive done 200 miles varying the revs staying below 4k, its on s*ite oil atm

 

how many more miles on the s*ite oil and how many before i can put decent oil in and rag it round a track? (ie: on saturday!)

[base-1 17]

200 miles is alright, put whatever oil you like in it and drive it!

[Banjo 1]

Sorry boombang but if you've built an engine and the crank is contacting the bearings Id be worried, the crank should never touch the bearings as its running on a film of oil as you probably know, so why do you need to run the bearings in? With my new engine its getting the full throttle treatment as Ive been told by numerous mechanics (Even a Pug mech) that its the best way to run in an engine, from a power point of vue aswell as a reliabillity one.

Ben

[Ahl 4]

the crank should never touch the bearings as its running on a film of oil as you probably know, so why do you need to run the bearings in?

Hey, what the point of even having bearings then? You could just run the crank on silly putty.

With my new engine its getting the full throttle treatment as Ive been told by numerous mechanics (Even a Pug mech) that its the best way to run in an engine, from a power point of vue aswell as a reliabillity one.

Mechanics usually know no better than the rest of us tbh, and frequently much less.

The engine wants full throttle and then full vacuum cycling to get full power and sealing of the piston rings.

However, although tolerances are much more accurate these days, the bearings, especially bottom end, want to be carefully run in by limiting the revs until so many miles have been driven. Thats not to say you can't have full throttle/vacuum cycling within that rev limit.

 

Exceptions would be with race engines with very loose tolerances or if a new camshaft was fitted requiring set stable revs for 20min or so to bed in properly. Ideally you'd run the bottom end in first, then fit the piston rings and give them full throttle/full rev cycling.

 

Thats the way I understand it anyway.

[kate205gti 4]

200 miles is alright, put whatever oil you like in it and drive it!

thankyooo

 

done another 300 miles tonight (!) so up to 500 now does that mean i can go above 4k? or should i wait till i changed the oil for decent stuff?