Fitting Larger Oil Cooler

[Jonmurgie 2]

I need to figure out a good place to fit a larger oil cooler to my track car and am looking for suggestions of where to locate it. The final size of the cooler hasn't be decided so I can be pretty flexible, but the standard location of behind the rad is no good on this occasion...

 

I've seen one or 2 cars with them pretty much stuck infront of the bumber, but it looks like that can easily be damaged...

 

Anyone seen a good install on another 205?

 

Any advice welcome!

Jon

[crogthomas 0]

I've seen 205 rally cars with oil coolers inside the bumper about where the number plate would be. Holes drilled through the plastic of the bumper to let air in. Is that what you meant by 'stuck infront of the bumper'?

 

Craig

[pacey205 2]

Assuming youve not lowered your rad to get more air to the TB's would behind the grill in the valance not be a suitable place. Assuming this is your track car then you wont have a number plate (Im guessing) so you should get decent airflow to it plus there should be a reasonable amount of space to.

 

If not there then Id think maybe about mounting it behind the valance somewhere and either making ducting to it, or cutting out a section of the valance and then covering it with mesh or something, or a combo of the two.

 

Id say your going to be lead byt what sort of size oil cooler you need though, any ideas on rough sizes ?

 

Michael

[Super Josh 4]

My Mocal used to be fitted in the second rad fan position. No reason why you couldn't fit one there, just fit one with a larger number or rows if you need more cooling.

 

 

Josh

[Jonmurgie 2]

Josh - the standard locatino isn't going to work as the cowling won't be there for much longer!

 

I think behind the bumper where the numberplate goes and removeing the plate sounds best...

 

I was thinking of down behind where the fog lights go and cutting a vent out of there, but am thinking of brake ducts there instead.

 

As for size of coooler I have no idea really.. is there somewhere that recommends sizes compared to the BHP being run? How do I go about deciding what's the best size?

[crogthomas 0]

As for size of coooler I have no idea really.. is there somewhere that recommends sizes compared to the BHP being run? How do I go about deciding what's the best size?

 

Not really. You go by experience im afraid. Are you actually manageing to overheat the oil useing the standard cooler?

[rich_w 0]

Jon,

 

Get one of these bad boys

 

http://titan-lite.com/xdefault.asp

 

They really arent that much for what they are (I think i got quoted around the 100 quid mark but this was last year @ the autosport show) - tested against shotguns, there desgined for the rally boys and can take stone directly at them without bending the fins, they really are amazing!

 

You can mount the thing where you want

[Jonmurgie 2]

I'm not using an oil cooler at all... oil is getting to the over heating stage with the standard Mi after 15/20 minutes on track.

 

This oil cooler, however, is for my other engine being built up and is going to need some more cooling over the standard core, plue it needs to flow very very well...

[Shevy 4]

Josh - the standard locatino isn't going to work as the cowling won't be there for much longer!

 

I think behind the bumper where the numberplate goes and removeing the plate sounds best...

 

I was thinking of down behind where the fog lights go and cutting a vent out of there, but am thinking of brake ducts there instead.

 

As for size of coooler I have no idea really.. is there somewhere that recommends sizes compared to the BHP being run? How do I go about deciding what's the best size?

 

I've got no cowling fitted either, you can still mount it in front of the radiator, from memory there are some holes in the crossmember that runs in parallel with thethe radiator that has some holes in you can fix the oil cooler to. Mine is in bits at the moment so I can't take a picture and show you how mine was setup.

[engine killer 5]

this may help, wish you can get the access. i have a 25 row oil cooler installed as well.

 

http://community.webshots.com/album/540826659KIprQO

 

cheers.

[Sandy 189]

I'm not using an oil cooler at all... oil is getting to the over heating stage with the standard Mi after 15/20 minutes on track.

 

What temperature? Overcooling is more common than overheating.

[Adam B 0]

Jon, just remembered something! (wow!)

Vauxhall Fronteras (petrol 8v iirc) come with mahoosive oil coolers if you want one cheaply...

As do most 4x4s i'd imagine.

[Jonmurgie 2]

this may help, wish you can get the access. i have a 25 row oil cooler installed as well.

 

http://community.webshots.com/album/540826659KIprQO

 

cheers.

 

That looks neat... you got a remote oil filter going on there as well? However, that does look a little BIG for a normally aspirated engine...

 

As for running temps I don't know exaclty, I just know it gets up towards the last quarter of the gauge and then I cool it down and come back in... I think I'll just go for something that I feel is the right size, a little bigger than the OEM cooler on the 1.9 GTi

[engine killer 5]

it gets really hot here in hong kong, the 13 rows i tried not enough at all. so i have to go for a much bigger size. the 25 rows works fine with the sandwich plate (with thermostat).

[pugrallye 0]

you can buy an oil cooler cowling, with one inlet for about 90mm pipe, so using this, could mount it anywhere you wanted

[tom_m 0]

mocal market a 13 row cooler for the 205 and as long as you run a thermostatic snadwich plate you won't over cool it, i think 25 row would be serious over kill for and NA car inthe uk!

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Jon, looking at the two articles on your site & 205gtidrivers you have the later oil water heat exchanger type which moves the filter down by the gearbox. This will cause the oil to over heat on a 15-20 minutes track sessionas the water gets hotter along with the oil.

 

I've got a 14 row Mocal (iirc) on mine currently & an alloy sump & the oil temp didn't go above halfway at Cadwell last Novemeber but under normal driving at this time of year I think its getting over cooled.

 

I had a oil/water type like you have fitted previously but that also seemed to take ages to warm the oil so I removed it & fitted an air oil one in its place.

 

IMO you should still be able to find some way of mounting it in front of the rad where they are originally though, just need to choose a suitable size.

 

Graham.

[Jonmurgie 2]

You have to ignore the pics mate, I don't actually run with that plumbed in, so at the moment I don't have any kind of oil cooling, not even a finned sump (it's a BX motor).

 

I'm going to be at Combe in March anyhow so I'll see which is the best size from Merlin Motorsport as they keep everything in stock

[RobMGti 0]

Im unsure if you just use the car for track Jon but i fitted a 13/15 row Mocal cooler to my track 8v last year. I had to take it off this winter as it was massivley overcooling the oil. Just a point for if you do fit, i wouldnt bother until it gets abit warmer.

 

Rob

[Jonmurgie 2]

Yes it is just for track... and it will be for a high spec Mi16 track engine so I'm certain it will need cooling somewhat

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

You have to ignore the pics mate, I don't actually run with that plumbed in, so at the moment I don't have any kind of oil cooling, not even a finned sump (it's a BX motor).

OK, I wasn't surer but thought I could see a hose leading down to it from the top hose in one of the pictures.

 

Stew205 doesn't run an oil cooler iirc either but keeps a close eye on the oil temps.

 

Merlin should be able to sort a suitable one out, March might still be a bit cold though for getting one that'll be OK in summer. Mine was running at 3/4 - 7/8's at Croft last July with a steel sump on & just the air to oil cooler.

 

Graham.

[Sandy 189]

I'm finding this thread quite bemusing, because...

 

a ) no body's actually quoted oil running temperatures, the OE gauges don't give you anything other than a guide, the 106 oil tmep gauge for example goes off the scale at around 110-120C, which is not overheating for a decent synthetic oil (130C + is where the life of the oil begins to deteriorate, immediate performance doesn't usually suffer until 140C+ from the data I have access to).

 

b ) a decent oil temperature gauge (such as the SPA digital one I use) enables you to properly observe the oil temperature patterns; I experimented on my TU engine running without and with the oil-coolant heat exchanger. With it fitted the oil warmed quicker from cold (I ensured ambient temperature and driving pattern was repeated for sound comparison) and the oil temperature remained around coolant temperature under normal driving in cold weather, it never reached 100C on track or during mapping on the rolling road either. Without the heat exchanger, the oil wouldn't stay over 70C during normal driving, which means hard driving at this temperature can result in immediate engine damage. Hard driving without it resulted in oil temperature increasing conitnuously until I eased off. Sam running a similar engine is his 205, with an air-oil cooler fitted with a thermostat diverter, had great difficulty getting the oil temperature up to a safe level under normal driving, even with an extremely short gearbox! He wrapped the cooler in the end to ensure a safe temperature coulod be reached. Overcooling the oil is a greater immediate risk to engine damage than overheating.

 

c ) oil coolers add weight where you least want it and if damaged, can cost you your engine.

Edited January 31, 2006 by sandy309

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

If the increments on the 205 dials can be believed afaik the second mark from the left is 90' & centre is 110'c but I can't find anywhere that states what temperature would cause the oil temp light to come on & I know a few people that have had the guage indicating on the top notch next to the light which imo would make the oil temp about 130' on a track day.

 

I know mine is currently borderline being over cooled & I've blocked air flow through my air oil cooler off until I do my next oil change (this month) & remove the sandwich plate, disconnecting it for now. When I had the oil/ water one fitted, it was the same or worse than now with an alloy sumop fitted so I might swap back to a steel sump & this one. I've got a new 82' thermostat to fit so I could plumb the heat exchanger back in when I fit it while the system is drained.

 

Graham.

[Rippthrough 98]

I experimented on my TU engine running without and with the oil-coolant heat exchanger. With it fitted the oil warmed quicker from cold (I ensured ambient temperature and driving pattern was repeated for sound comparison) .

 

 

Mini-hijack.

Where's the oil/coolant exchanger from?

[Daxed 7]

Can't you build a stat into the system, just flow to the cooler when excessive temps reached?