Q About Charge Cooling

[Guest andy309goodwood]

hi all another Q for ya

 

Q spec list

2.0t xm lump mi16 crank and fly hybrid t 25 T/T exhaust manifold big valve flowed 1.9 head and the gti inlet manifold controled by a mega squirt ecu

right thats the plan now the Q

 

im planning on charge cooling but havent been able to find what i want for a charge cooler shape and size for under 500 notes it has been sugested that i get an intercooler core and make my own charge cooler using this

but again for an of the shelf item of the size and type im still looking at around the 3-4 hundred notes so beeing as im going to build it myself i have looked into just getting the core and found that i can get a 140x400x60 mm core for 60 from pace (thats more like it ) now do i get an intercooler core that flows the charge and pass the coolant thro the fins or get a radiator core and pass the charge thro the fins and the coolant thro the core ?

 

any info / advice greatfully recived

cheers

andy

[DrSeuss 0]

look on the main site. There's a guide to finding and installing a chargecooler on a turbo technics.

 

Aren't you worried about increasing compression with an mi crank? and why use a 1.9 head?

[Guest andy309goodwood]

yer i should be getting the engine in about a week or so time so once ive got it and the head together ill calculate how much i need to drop the c/r eather by getting the combustion chabers and pistons machened or by way of a compression plate not sure which yet

[Guest andy309goodwood]

just had a quik read of that article and hes using a subaru chage cooler kit where as im planning to build one from scratch

 

planning to have the charge inlet under the header tank then the outlet right opposit the inlet to the inletmanifold to cut down on lag (not that there should be much )and ittl then sit where the battery goes

cheers

Edited October 23, 2005 by andy309goodwood

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I believe that a Citroen XM turbodiesel has the same chargecooler as a 405 T16, just in a different position. It might just be on the larger engines though. This sits in the under the battery position in an XM so might be of use to you as a cheap alternative.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

I would think very carefully before parting with your hard-earned readies for a charge cooler. You will only really benefit with one when the car is stationery or moving slowly (in traffic for example), where there is not enough airflow through an intercooler to reduce the inlent temps sufficiently. However, once on the move, a decent intercooler will provide all the boost cooling that you'll need in a much easier (installation) and cheaper way than a charge cooler.

 

And spending £500 on one when you could pick up a suitable intercooler for £50 is madness IMHO!

[Ryan 99]

To answer your question, you need an intercooler core to make your own chargecooler.

 

What are you going to use to cool the water down afterwards, or were you planning to hook it up to the engine coolant (not recommended)?

[TEKNOPUG 3]

You'd need a second radiator really. The guide on the forum home page is the best thing to work from.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

i'd also suggest using Subary Legacy Turbo, Toyota Celica ST205/225 or 605 2.5 TD

chargecooler and connecting it to a dedicated radiator, rather than creating your own

chargecooler. these will perform good enough for you and you'll ultimately spare a lot

of money that you can spend on a electronic boost controller .

 

otherwise use a Sierra Cosworth intercooler (don't know if it's RWD or 4x4, check the

turbo conversion article on the website) as it seems to neatly fit behind the front valance.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

2WD Cossie one I'd suggest. The 4WD one is the same width/length but twice as deep. Makes it a lot harder to fit and it's not beneficial to have one that large unless you are running silly boost.

[Guest andy309goodwood]

cheers for all the info

 

as for cost ill only be forking out aprox 60 for the core and manufacturing the end plates and coolant bins my self so it would still work out cheeper

 

boost controll will be done by the ms ecu and will be mapped to the feul and dis ign map and will have two settings one standard low ish boost for normal driving and one progressive map for madness boost will be controlled by how much you press the go peddle

 

cooling will be done by a dedicated rad agian of my own construction obtainiong an alloy core from pace the electric pumb will also be controlled by the ms ecu as this is able to controll 2 seperate coolant systems again controlled by the switchable maps ie one at reasonable temp for eco and one to cool as much as poss for a denser charge

 

as far as i am aware a good charge cooler set up is more efficiant then an intercooler (could be wrong tho lol ) at its got that " i bult this " appeal lol

 

cheers again

andy

[rich_w 0]

What about the "i blew it up myself" appeal

[Guest andy309goodwood]

lol knew it wouldent take long for you to show up lol

[boeseturbo 1]

BTW I ordered an chargecooler (watercooled intercooler barrel) at pwr-performance.... www.pwr.com.au...

 

Regards

 

Jan

[Guest andy309goodwood]

wow they look good shame they start at $400 and go up quickly

have you fitted it yet ? have you got the kit or just the barrel ?

cheers andy

[boeseturbo 1]

wow they look good shame they start at $400 and go up quickly

have you fitted it yet ? have you got the kit or just the barrel ?

cheers andy

 

 

Hi,

 

I just ordered it and only the barrel, I will use motorcycle radiator and own pump from VW-Bus (T2 Turbo Diesel) (own water-cycle for charge-cooling).

 

I´ve ordered the 4x10" one. I think it´s big enaugh for round about 300 hp.

 

Regards

 

JAn

[Guest andy309goodwood]

please let me know how you get on as im aiming for around the 230-250 bhp figure

cheers andy

[Guest andy309goodwood]

just woundering if you have fitted the barrel yet and how you are getting on with it ?

[saveloy 8]

Space is not an issue on a 309. You can fit a larger intercooler in front of the rad,or run one across the rad horizontally.

Building a chargecooler system yourself is fine if you want to feel proud of yourself.

But, performance/efficiency wise,it is absolutely the second rate option in your situation.

If you want to get your hands mucky,how about building an intercooler water spray system?

[Guest andy309goodwood]

sure but when you can get one of these

http://www.pwr.com.au/pwr/index.asp

for about 300 inc postage its the cheeper option and as far as i am aware its also the more eficiant way

plus id have an inlet trackt from the turbo to the inlet manifold of aprox 1 meter or less including the charge cooler and itll keep the inlet cool whilst at a standstill ( ie waiting at the start line of a 1/4 mile lol )

i figure that altho i could have a go at building one myself once i got it working it prob still wouldent be as efficiant as one of these and would cost aprox the same ie 3 small cores plus time and metirials

 

as for an intercooler spray sytem whats wrong with a windscreen washer system using the nosel type jets from some thing like a merc

just a thought

[pdd144c 0]

Why do you need a spray system? Windscreen washer system is really unaffective, need something a bit more high pressured to function correctly. If you get the correct sized intercooler you wont see any problems. Cossie ones are ok, but the pipework is a pain. Not sure what we will be using on my T16, may be easier to make one. Pace sell the cores and they are priced quite well.

[Ryan 99]

Some online mag (maybe Autospeed?) did a back-to-back test of a few spray systems. IIRC even the best one with an expensive high-pressure pump and special mist-spray nozzles made less than 2% different to power. The ones with washer pumps and nozzles were useless - they concluded that the idea was to spray just enough water to cool the IC by evaporation, not to jetwash it.

[Guest andy309goodwood]

thats y i sugested a merc style nozel as they have a high pressure washer system that uses nozels insted of jets and when used they give a very fine but directional mist

 

as for intercoolers i looked into getting a core from pace and for the size i wanted it was about £120 iirc which was damn good but then youve got to build your own headers and mounts and at the end of it all youv still got a large inlet passage which was one of the things i wanted to keep as short as possable hence going for the chage cooler route

Edited February 27, 2006 by andy309goodwood

[tom_m 0]

if you read the latest PPC DW mentions a homebrew charge cooler made out of an OE IC 'wrapped' in ali wiht its own rad. he remarks at how efficient it is. theres a lot to be said for carge cooling done properly. however he was most complimentary about that astra with an rs500 IC stuck out the front bumper, said that had a bomber intake temp didn't he!

[saveloy 8]

Taking cost out of the eqwuation,an IC is the more efficient means of removing heat from the inlet tract.

If you want to fiddle about with water,then fit a water injection system.

I would not worry about the inlet tract length. I still run an original IC on my 205TT,with shortened inlet plumbing and throttle response is not an issue.

I'm not incredibly familiar with the 2.0 turbo lump,but I don't remember lag or throttle response to be areas for griping.

If you want to keep heat at bay,take precautions with the plumbing(heatshield everything)and run the largest IC you can.