Noodles anyone ? (heater matrix inserts)

[DamirGTI 359]

Stuff never seem to surprise an individual in automotive world !

 

The physics about this tubular swirl inserts i understand , but seen them disintegrated and migrated through the cooling system potentially blocking off smaller coolant hoses , damaging water pump seal , thermostat stuck open etc. 

Decided to pull them out ... cause they're plastic and OE should be metal which will be near impossible to find nowadays with Chinesuim made parts .

 

Now im not sure if it's just one strip of that turbulator inside or there's one in each alu. tube ?!

 

Also they say without the inserts the heater function will be less efficient , anyone tried without the strips inside if it really makes that much difference ?

 

Nissens and some unknown brand "made in the same factory with just different labels identical item crap" : 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2025 by DamirGTI

[Leslie green 162]

If id have seen that crap in mine it would have been out and in the bin , Volkswagen put a bag of desiccant beads in the expansion bottles  of  the 2011 on passats and eventually the bags split letting all the beads into the very fine matrix tubes blocking them . My brother was caught with it and its had 2 matrix's already as its hard to get it all out and once its in the matrix its new matrix time again as no heat.

[welshpug 1,722]

4 hours ago, Leslie green said:

If id have seen that crap in mine it would have been out and in the bin , Volkswagen put a bag of desiccant beads in the expansion bottles  of  the 2011 on passats and eventually the bags split letting all the beads into the very fine matrix tubes blocking them . My brother was caught with it and its had 2 matrix's already as its hard to get it all out and once its in the matrix its new matrix time again as no heat.

its not dessicant, though it is silica to extend the life of the particular eco friendly coolant used.

 

the bags physically cannot split, they are perforated and have no force upon them.

 

the blocked matrix thing is super common as its not a full flow system like older vehicles like a 205,  to prevent them bursting,    poor maintenance and using tap water rather than distilled/de-ionised water soon makes the engine blocks corrode which leads to the silt.

[Leslie green 162]

They  can split with old age though usually around 10 years as in our case the bag  was empty and all the smalll bits were going round the lines and its super common .Our mechanic takes any of the bags he find out the expansion bottle to avoid it .all other manufacturerd can cope with tap water and good antifreeze Volkswagen just put that bs out to avoid liability as most manufacturers have aluminium blocks amd heater matrixes  these days and no issues.

[welshpug 1,722]

no manufacturer says to use tap water.

[Leslie green 162]

20 hours ago, welshpug said:

no manufacturer says to use tap water.

Yes I can't argue there but in our case genuine Volkswagen premixed coolant was use the last 2 times after matrix changes as well as a genuine matrix after the first after market one blocked soon after ( due to the leftover grains grains from the bag splitting  remaining in the system despite flushing  ,It went to a Volkswagen specialist the second time as we suspected motor flap failure and the only one I couldn't reach was a dash out job  ,they can test with software,  we can't say what coolant was used before we got it but I'm sure it was the little bag in the expansion bottle splitting caused the blockage in this case as the blockage was fairly sudden and took all heat away not a gradual drop in heat over time you would expect with corrosion buildup.

Edited September 13, 2025 by Leslie green

[pugdamo 112 2 Cars]

@Leslie green These Silica bags splitting on VAG vehicles are a thing, I was at a Seat main dealers and there was a TSB for it, we didn't see a large volume of them since most of the vehicles we worked on weren't old enough but I got out of the dealer network and work at an independent now and I've come across it quite a few times, either customer complaints of poor heater or struggling to bleed the cooling system after working on it. As you said it can be a real nightmare to get the little beads out (or as many as possible)

 

Edited September 14, 2025 by pugdamo

[bacardincoke 48 1 Cars]

I was restoring a late (1991) MK2 Golf GTI around 4 years ago, still have it and part of that entailed refreshing the heater set-up / matrix.

 

It's an identical system to the 205's.

 

The Golf was low mileage and 99.9% original, next to nothing had been replaced over the preceding years and the matrix was the factory fitted one.

 

It was actually a VW branded Valeo, bit of an oddity as nothing else of their stuff turned up in the car.

 

I split it open out of curiosity as Golf matrixes (matricies?) of that era apparently could explode, scalding drivers legs... there was even a recall over it with a dealer retro-fit bypass valves fitted to try and prevent it (my car didn't have the additional valve, hence the interest in investigating).

 

Anyhow, to your question... all the internal pipes had the plastic tubulators, so pulling out the one that's accessible in your photo won't prevent the remaining ones eventually breaking down / getting into the coolant system (which can happen on VW's too).

 

I know that when the MK3 golf appeared in 1992 the Matrix was 'improved' to eliminate the risk of them exploding, any MK2 ones that you buy nowadays are actually MK3 items.

 

I've since read that the tubulators aren't in the MK3 matrix (maybe that was the cause of the problem and the solution?), but can't confirm that, not having opened one to see for myself.

 

It's a MK3 one that's in my MK2, and if that's correct about it having no tubulators, you'd be none the wiser, it doesn't have any obvious impact on effectively it works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leslie green 162]

4 hours ago, pugdamo said:

@Leslie green These Silica bags splitting on VAG vehicles are a thing, I was at a Seat main dealers and there was a TSB for it, we didn't see a large volume of them since most of the vehicles we worked on weren't old enough but I got out of the dealer network and work at an independent now and I've come across it quite a few times, either customer complaints of poor heater or struggling to bleed the cooling system after working on it. As you said it can be a real nightmare to get the little beads out (or as many as possible)

 

Pugdamo .....Its definitely an age related failure with heating/cooling cycles and the vag specialist my brother went to ( its his car 2016 passat ) said he had seen and repaired loads of them  , once that matrix is blocked its scrap , you can't clear them as the tubes are so fine now .I had heard it said main dealer serviced cars got checked and if split they replaced the expansion bottle or took the bag out and said nothing  to the customer  but the the beads were all round the system  so too late .we will never know !

One of the only problems with those age passats tbh , great car and last forever , I have the older 2006  pd140 and now on 261,000 miles still going well. If I was getting a newer one id be checking the heater and fully expect to put at least one matrix in it , I think you need to really flush it , then run it  bypassing the matrix a while or run with the old matrix and then flush it again before putting a new matrix in as those beads will be hiding in all the nooks and crannies around the system to break free some time later .

Edited September 14, 2025 by Leslie green

[jj007205 0]

On a tangential note—looking at the location of the 205 GTI’s matrix and the stereo it’s always a good idea to check back there from time to time. I got lucky and caught mine starting to weep, so I was able to replace it before it leaked and damaged the stereo too! 

 

While I was at it, I also isolated the interior by making a simple connector using a small piece of hose, with connectors at each end at the firewall. This ensured no more coolant could get into the car while the replacement part was on its way.