Fuel pump fault symptoms? 1.6CTi

[lagonda 41]

When I removed the fuel pump back in 2008, I recall it was dated around 1995, so the original (1989) pump lasted just 6 years and 80,000 odd miles. Still that pump, which is now therefore seen 29 years service, and 160,000 miles.

 

What life can I reasonably expect from one of these, and what symptoms might I expect once it is wearing out? Obviously total failure equals no starting/running ... but I don't want to get to that point!

 

I recall reading on here that replacement pumps often need modification to fit, which I'd prefer to avoid. I've seen this recently on ebay, for sale here in France;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305536816767

 

  Also see picture of that one attached. The socket and inlet/outlet spigots at least look correct. Does this look correct and ready to fit without modification. Indeed has anyone fitted one of these? The vendor rather unhelpfully states "Brand according to arrival : Bosch, Meat & Doria, Stark ... Which probably means anything except Bosch!

Edited May 5 by lagonda

[welshpug 1,627]

For a 1989 car with the black housing the pump itself is readily available from Autodoc for around £75 for a bosch unit, direct fit no messing.

Edited May 6 by welshpug

[lagonda 41]

Hi Mei,

 Thanks for reply, and yes, actually late 1989. Sounds too good to be true, and unfortunately that's the case ... Autodoc France : "Type de fonctionnement: électrique · Côté d'assemblage: dans le réservoir de carburant · Numéro d'article: 0 580 310 015 · Notre prix: 359,70 € · Fabricant: BOSCH ...
309,34 € · ‎Épuisé"  ... out of stock, and that's the same for Autodoc UK, except their out of stock price is £316.60.

 

Other vendors here in France also all state out of stock ... so clearly there has been a demand for these pumps, which means I would even more hope someone can also respond re:

 

What life can I reasonably expect from one of these, and what symptoms might I expect once it is wearing out? Obviously total failure equals no starting/running ... but I don't want to get to that point!

[DamirGTI 327]

What Mei said , non Ph2 205's have different pump and housing type , as well as the fuel tank - pump type goes along with the corresponding tank as an pair ie. you can't fit late Ph2 pump in early Ph1 or Ph1.5 tank and me thinks vice versa too ..

 

Yours being '89 model it'll have pump in a black housing , with bigger "roller cell" pump inside , part No. for just the pump (housing you do not need unless broken/damaged) :

 

0 580 464 993

0 580 464 998 (this one is often around 20% cheaper than the *993 variant , they're both the same so pick one which is cheaper ..)

 

What service life to expect from the pumps , well ... i've taken apart and repaired a few of them , say from 5 of them 4 where still good for many miles of use it was just the stale fuel which made them stuck (roller cell mechanism) , both the brushes and the commutator where still good indicating it'll work for quite a long time if not left standing in stale fuel . Especially those old Bosch pumps where made very robust , just the roller cell mechanism is sensitive to fuel varnish/sediment (a the time there was leaded fuel only and unleaded but not mixed with Ethanol which is the main problem nowadays damaging fuel pumps unless they're turbine rather than roller cell suction type ..)

 

As to how they go out , it can be suddenly without a warning and it can last for a while with most often intermittent cutting in-out sensation (kinda like ignition misfire) during the driving which progressively gets worse if ignored and then to the complete failure ie. no start .

"Suddenly scenario" , it'll work for the complete day of driving , but next day it'll go bust literary over night also creating no start afterwards ... you might get it working again by hitting/tapping the pump from the top or the bottom of the tank , if it then fires up - do not turn the engine off till you finished you're journey/drive and got to the safe place where you can replace it . 

 

D

 

 

[lagonda 41]

Hi Damir,

 

  Many thanks, very helpful. I've been suspicious of my pump as the car still suffers from occasional cutting out. Swapped just about every ignition component with no improvement! So it looks worthwhile replacing the pump, especially as it has done such a high mileage since the previous replacement.

 

  Good news is I can see both versions you mentioned available, however the images show two screw terminals. Mine has a plug socket terminal on the casing ... can I take it that it will have this two screw terminal unit inside?!

 

Laurence

[welshpug 1,627]

0580 464 998 is £76 on autodoc,  i have fitted a few, swap the terminals from the original pump, same as you do on the earlier coils.

Edited May 6 by welshpug

[lagonda 41]

Hi Mei,

 

  Many thanks, and that's interesting: I'm seeing £89.71 (incl VAT but not P&P) on Autodoc UK. Won't be the first time I've seen higher prices looking at UK stuff here. Likewise the £111 pump from a French seller on UK ebay is less than £100 to me here in France.

 

  Will search and see who can offer best price for one of these, and buy today!

 

  Laurence

 

 

[welshpug 1,627]

Use the app, its always cheaper on there, they're Berlin based by the way

Edited May 6 by welshpug

[lagonda 41]

Interesting to hear, but no smart phone ... not keen on mobile phones! Annoying not being able to do "apps" on the laptop.

 

In the event, I've ordered a Bosch 0 580 464 998 from a firm called Motostacja in Poland, €94.71 (about £81) including P&P, which hopefully will arrive in about a week's time.

 

As an aside, I've noticed the tachymetric relay gets pretty hot ... hot enough to slightly melt the plastic surrounding the terminal pins. Is that normal ... could that indicate higher than normal current draw from the pump?

[DamirGTI 327]

2 hours ago, lagonda said:

Interesting to hear, but no smart phone ... not keen on mobile phones!

 

Congratulations , me neither !

 

Not sure about amp rating for the tachy relay , but it tends to heat up yes so certain amount of heat with the engine running is ok. . If it's cool with the engine off then no worries .

Often problem with electrics which can lead to fire is poor/sloppy connection , this loosely "make-and-brake" connection movement on wiring connection creates heat , melts connection joint surrounding plastic or any surrounding material which burns .

 

D

[lagonda 41]

Hi Damir,

 

  Good to read ... hate the damn things. Happy to speak at the phone at home, but when I'm out I'm out!

 

  Yes, cool when off. I've closed up the Lucar type female connectors in the socket so all should be making firm contact. Therefore I'm pretty certain its the relay itself that heats up, not a connection fault.

 

Laurence

[SRDT 150]

You can also check for dry solder joints inside the relay.

[lagonda 41]

Oh don't worry ... our longest drive (and first hint of what a vicious ungrateful car it would prove to be) in the CTi since purchase, back in 2003, was to Waddesdon. Got within walking distance, and it stopped. And wouldn't restart. Even hours later, once cooled down. So had to hitch a lift and get a train home. Suspected this relay so bought a new one, and friend gave us a lift. Fortunately the new one did the job. Got home, looked at the original relay, and, only with a magnifying glass ... spotted dry solder joints! So, yes, resoldering both of them has pretty much been an occasional maintenance job since, including last week!